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Torillian said:
jason1637 said:

Telling people to go back somewhere isnt racist. 

Well since everyone wants to be pedantic I guess I'll join in:

I didn't say what he said was racist, I said he framed it that way because he's racist. He's racist so he framed the tweet in a xenophobic way that calls into question the american identity of several brown congresswomen. My contention is that if the congresswomen were white he would not have called into question their american identity. My basis for this is Trump's support of Obama birtherism and basic pattern recognition. 

I don't see it as xenophobic either. He doesnt like them because they are progressive and because they have criticized him. I don't see how that's racist or xenophobic. It's very mean and I guess you can call it bigoted but the tweet ha snothing to do with their race. You're just making an assumption about questioning their American identity. During the 2016 primary Trump questioned Ted Cruz American identity. I know that's not the best example since Cruz is Latino but it shows that if you're seen as an opponent to Trump he will come after you.

haxxiy said:
jason1637 said:

Telling people to go back somewhere isnt racist. 

It's both xenophobic and racially charged. Most of these congresswomen were born in the US. He's basically saying immigrants from poor non-White countries have no business in politics in the US. That's as close as advocating segregation or something like a caste system I can remember him insinuating. Or do you believe he would be saying the same thing if these people had, say, Russian or Ukrainian ancestry?

I don't see that saying in the tweet. Yeah most of them were born in the US but a lot of people identify with where their parents or grandparents are from. I think you're looking to deep into it.



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Immersiveunreality said:
Torillian said:

Since you are not capable of inductive reasoning I want to tell you outright that I hate you and think you're a detriment to all political discourse. 

I think you are overreacting and "i hate you" together with "you're a detriment to all political discourse" in one sentence does not make you look that openminded .

That said you should take a step back and see people want to condemn what trump tweeted following their own interpretation of the context without always having to assume half of the so called facts you tell them to believe or without hyperbole and you do not have to call them idiots for that or hate them for that.

If you can't hold back that feeling then just keep it for yourself cause its pulls the thread down and it is against the rules.

I'd be curious to consider if it's against the rules. Thought about it and I don't think it's technically a personal insult to tell someone I hate them and the rest is my opinion on their effect on political discourse. 

Rest of your post I give 0 shits about so I'll just leave them hanging. 



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KLAMarine said:
Torillian said:

Since you are not capable of inductive reasoning I want to tell you outright that I hate you and think you're a detriment to all political discourse. 

Gonna take that as a 'no'. After a session of inductive reasoning, how do you verify Trump's actions stem from hate for 'brown people' and not from anything else like a dislike for progressive ideology or for democrats in general?

You can't ever verify, that's what makes it hard to live in a world with people that are smart about being bigots. 



...

Torillian said:
Immersiveunreality said:

I think you are overreacting and "i hate you" together with "you're a detriment to all political discourse" in one sentence does not make you look that openminded .

That said you should take a step back and see people want to condemn what trump tweeted following their own interpretation of the context without always having to assume half of the so called facts you tell them to believe or without hyperbole and you do not have to call them idiots for that or hate them for that.

If you can't hold back that feeling then just keep it for yourself cause its pulls the thread down and it is against the rules.

I'd be curious to consider if it's against the rules. Thought about it and I don't think it's technically a personal insult to tell someone I hate them and the rest is my opinion on their effect on political discourse. 

Rest of your post I give 0 shits about so I'll just leave them hanging. 

I'm sure it counts as a personal attack when you are telling someone you hate him for his opinion,read bolded.

You are free to give it a better fitting shape based on your feelings ofcourse but i do think you should calm down with being so agressive for a bit.

Insults and Flaming -Attacking other users for any reason is never acceptable.


You should avoid:

  • Insulting a person's religion, religious beliefs, race, sex, sexuality, nationality, political beliefs, gaming preferences, etc. Debate is encouraged, as is civil disagreement, but respect the beliefs and opinions of others.
  • Insulting any group without proper justification.
  • Do not call people names, such as fanboy, idiot, troll, etc, etc... Also, avoid offensive racial, religious, or sexual terms and slurs.
  • Disparaging, insulting, or baiting comments about users who are not participating in the thread.
  • Making highly offensive comments about people outside the site (though greater leniency will be shown for comments about non-members).
  • Inciting abuse or harassment - of anyone. This includes attempting to discredit any user based on their preferences.


Immersiveunreality said:
Torillian said:

I'd be curious to consider if it's against the rules. Thought about it and I don't think it's technically a personal insult to tell someone I hate them and the rest is my opinion on their effect on political discourse. 

Rest of your post I give 0 shits about so I'll just leave them hanging. 

I'm sure it counts as a personal attack when you are telling someone you hate him for his opinion,read bolded.

You are free to give it a better fitting shape based on your feelings ofcourse but i do think you should calm down with being so agressive for a bit.

Insults and Flaming -Attacking other users for any reason is never acceptable.


You should avoid:

  • Insulting a person's religion, religious beliefs, race, sex, sexuality, nationality, political beliefs, gaming preferences, etc. Debate is encouraged, as is civil disagreement, but respect the beliefs and opinions of others.
  • Insulting any group without proper justification.
  • Do not call people names, such as fanboy, idiot, troll, etc, etc... Also, avoid offensive racial, religious, or sexual terms and slurs.
  • Disparaging, insulting, or baiting comments about users who are not participating in the thread.
  • Making highly offensive comments about people outside the site (though greater leniency will be shown for comments about non-members).
  • Inciting abuse or harassment - of anyone. This includes attempting to discredit any user based on their preferences.

So in the world of centrists how do you prove that my intention was a personal attack rather than to inform a fellow user of my feelings on him in hopes that he will change and grow beyond his current state? 



...

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Torillian said:
Immersiveunreality said:

I'm sure it counts as a personal attack when you are telling someone you hate him for his opinion,read bolded.

You are free to give it a better fitting shape based on your feelings ofcourse but i do think you should calm down with being so agressive for a bit.

Insults and Flaming -Attacking other users for any reason is never acceptable.


You should avoid:

  • Insulting a person's religion, religious beliefs, race, sex, sexuality, nationality, political beliefs, gaming preferences, etc. Debate is encouraged, as is civil disagreement, but respect the beliefs and opinions of others.
  • Insulting any group without proper justification.
  • Do not call people names, such as fanboy, idiot, troll, etc, etc... Also, avoid offensive racial, religious, or sexual terms and slurs.
  • Disparaging, insulting, or baiting comments about users who are not participating in the thread.
  • Making highly offensive comments about people outside the site (though greater leniency will be shown for comments about non-members).
  • Inciting abuse or harassment - of anyone. This includes attempting to discredit any user based on their preferences.

So in the world of centrists how do you prove that my intention was a personal attack rather than to inform a fellow user of my feelings on him in hopes that he will change and grow beyond his current state? 

You would have to assume like you do here that the one you respond to has to grow beyond his current state,but damn them how dare they use the context being presented to base their opinion off right? :p

Are you really trying to justify spitting such vile at users and going against rules in the hope that it will change them for the better?

And what do you mean with the bolded,are you assuming again?



Immersiveunreality said:
Torillian said:

So in the world of centrists how do you prove that my intention was a personal attack rather than to inform a fellow user of my feelings on him in hopes that he will change and grow beyond his current state? 

You would have to assume like you do here that the one you respond to has to grow beyond his current state,but damn them how dare they use the context being presented to base their opinion off right? :p

Are you really trying to justify spitting such vile at users and going against rules in the hope that it will change them for the better?

And what do you mean with the bolded,are you assuming again?

I'm having a debate about inductive reasoning. If you believe in its use then the question is directed to those in the thread that don't. 



...

Torillian said:
Immersiveunreality said:

You would have to assume like you do here that the one you respond to has to grow beyond his current state,but damn them how dare they use the context being presented to base their opinion off right? :p

Are you really trying to justify spitting such vile at users and going against rules in the hope that it will change them for the better?

And what do you mean with the bolded,are you assuming again?

I'm having a debate about inductive reasoning. If you believe in its use then the question is directed to those in the thread that don't. 

I dissagree strongly with the way you go about it but that is that.

Back ontopic.



the-pi-guy said:
KLAMarine said:

"We'll stick with dumb-as-shit and xenophobic then. I don't feel like trying to convince you that it's racist to tell brown congresswomen to go back to their own countries when xenophobic is easier and requires less groundwork laying."

He also asked those same congresswomen to return at some point: "then come back and show us how....

....it is done."

...But let's ignore that!

Most of them were born in America, so there's nowhere for them to go and come back from.  

It also pushes the buttons that "other countries are shit holes" and "people should fix their own countries instead of coming here".  

Because only people with "good countries" have a right to be here or something.  At least that's what they say about Hispanics, and non-white people.  

But the Irish who came here during the potato famine and all the white people escaping persecution are true Americans today.  

jason1637 said:
The tweets are pretty bad and I can see how it can be construed as racism but I think it has more to do with Trump being intolerant to progressive ideas.

It's a typical racist idea that non-white people should go back to their countries.  

It's racist that Trump is saying this about non-white congresswomen, most of whom were born here.  

For the record, I'm not fond of Trump's tweeting. Sometimes, I wish he would just not do it.

Torillian said:
KLAMarine said:

Gonna take that as a 'no'. After a session of inductive reasoning, how do you verify Trump's actions stem from hate for 'brown people' and not from anything else like a dislike for progressive ideology or for democrats in general?

You can't ever verify, that's what makes it hard to live in a world with people that are smart about being bigots. 

"You can't ever verify"

>And it's for that reason I avoid speculating on motive as often as possible.

"that's what makes it hard to live in a world with people that are smart about being bigots."

>Nothing hard about it if all you focus on is what can be verified rather than what needs to be thoroughly speculated on with no means of verification. Why did Trump speculate on Obama's birthplace? Was it racism or partisanship or a legitimate concern for constitutional authority?

Who gives a shit and why waste the time and energy speculating!? Just show Trump the damn birth certificate and then have him go away.



jason1637 said:
Torillian said:
haxxiy said:

It's both xenophobic and racially charged. Most of these congresswomen were born in the US. He's basically saying immigrants from poor non-White countries have no business in politics in the US. That's as close as advocating segregation or something like a caste system I can remember him insinuating. Or do you believe he would be saying the same thing if these people had, say, Russian or Ukrainian ancestry?

I don't see that saying in the tweet. Yeah most of them were born in the US but a lot of people identify with where their parents or grandparents are from. I think you're looking to deep into it.

Again, they were born in the US and chances are there is no other country in the world where they could occupy political posts, nor at any point they demonstrated such desire or attachment.

Trump, on the other hand, is the man who promoted birtherism against Obama, whose children were anchor babies for his foreign wives, and who seemingly believes his father was actually born in Germany and thinks this is a compliment or net positive to his own family.

What is the difference between what he said and claiming, for instance, that Black politicians should go back and fix Africa first? Neither chose where to be born, after all.