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curl-6 said:
Machiavellian said:

So the next big thing that is suppose to be happening is that the Trump has signed the Insurrection Act and will be sending in the troops to DC to enact something. Man I love a good conspiracy theory on a Monday. The going story is that we should see this happening this week so buckle up everyone. The browns beat the Steelers 2 twice so anything can happen.

Yeah that's what the QAnon/MAGA cultists all seem to be telling themselves at the moment.

"The storm is coming, wait and see, you'll love how this ends. God's plan cannot be stopped!"

"Files on Pelosi's laptop incriminate the globalist communist pedophile cabal, the pope has been arrested, Trump is in Texas right now meeting with the heads of the military, there will be martial law and military tribunals and the democrats will be all executed for treason, all this happening in the next few days, be ready."

"Biden will never be president, looking forward to 4 more years of Trump our saviour."

In 9 days when Trump is no longer president, and there is no great unmasking of this mythical NWO pedophile vampire illuminati, the fragile fantasy they've built is going to come crashing down for a lot of these people.

That's not how conspiracies work. If a prediction fails, that is never taken as a moment of reflection, instead it is turned around as undeniable proof that everything they heard is truth and that's why the dark forces they are fighting have interfered with the plan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon#Failed_predictions

The reason people believe in conspiracies is not to uncover truth, all they want is peace of mind in a complex world where they cannot cope. So they are literally mentally incapable of accepting anything that proves their simplistic world view is more complex. That's why it doesn't matter what the conspiracy is about. All that matters is that there is some big entity that has a plan and is doing everything for you so you don't have to think.

Why do you think religions are still around after millennia?

sundin13 said:

I have a hypothetical question for you all: If the election was stolen and there was clear and undeniably evidence of this fact, would you support citizens taking over the Capitol building in protest (assuming nobody died in the process)?

In a hypothetical world, yes. But we live in reality, so such a hypothetical scenario is not happening.

We don't even have to think hard about this scenario because we have China and any European country as a perfect example of what would happen.

If it happened in a democratic country we wouldn't even get to a riot because if there was undeniable truth the courts would've already dealt with it.

If it happened in China or any other dictatorship we wouldn't even get to a riot because the courts would've already dealt with any accusers of such a thing.

We even have a clear answer what would happen in a hypothetical world, like the dream world Trump supporters live in. There you can see that people would definitely support a riot if there was undeniable proof, because they honestly believe they have proof.



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curl-6 said:
Machiavellian said:

So the next big thing that is suppose to be happening is that the Trump has signed the Insurrection Act and will be sending in the troops to DC to enact something. Man I love a good conspiracy theory on a Monday. The going story is that we should see this happening this week so buckle up everyone. The browns beat the Steelers 2 twice so anything can happen.

Yeah that's what the QAnon/MAGA cultists all seem to be telling themselves at the moment.

"The storm is coming, wait and see, you'll love how this ends. God's plan cannot be stopped!"

"Files on Pelosi's laptop incriminate the globalist communist pedophile cabal, the pope has been arrested, Trump is in Texas right now meeting with the heads of the military, there will be martial law and military tribunals and the democrats will be all executed for treason, all this happening in the next few days, be ready."

"Biden will never be president, looking forward to 4 more years of Trump our saviour."

In 9 days when Trump is no longer president, and there is no great unmasking of this mythical NWO pedophile vampire illuminati, the fragile fantasy they've built is going to come crashing down for a lot of these people.

Lol, with a few QAnon friends on my FB, I can assure you they will just move to the next rumor.  Whoever is pulling their strings is having a ball.  Every time one of these rumors start to fly around, I have asked my QAnon friends what happens if this doesn't occur and they pretty much always say wait and see.  When it doesn't happen they just move to the next rumor and if you question anything, well you do not have the eyes to see what they do.  



KManX89 said:
JWeinCom said:

Uhhhh... wow... Trump has some very creative lawyers. 

As far as I can tell, they're suggesting something like this is happening.

Nancy Pelosi: Listen Twitter. You'd better ban Donald Trump right now. Or else we won't accept any more of your money!

Twitter: OH NO! PLEASE DON'T STOP TAKING OUR MONEY! WE'LL DO WHATEVER YOU SAY!

He's only for "protecting" 1st amendment rights when it's convenient. 

Not to mention the Constitution only protects freedom of speech in terms of criminal prosecution, that's it. He's free to say these things, just not on a social media platform that'll incite violent riots like the one at the Capitol building.

Hmm, Trump has always tried to use the threat of lawsuit to get his way but I believe in this case he and his lawyers better be very careful how they proceed.  There is a discovery period before trial and this could backfire bigly.  Oh well, until he actually goes with it, nothing to really see.



KLAMarine said:

"From my position here, where nobody discriminates against me,"

>? Are you invulnerable from discrimination? How?

"I can certainly imagine myself retaliating violently if someone did a racism against me."

>What's a "racism"?

"Since I have empathy, I don't vilify those who would fight back. Not as aggressors, but as the victims lashing out."

>For the family business near my home, the people who tore the place down WERE aggressors. Clear and obvious aggressors: it worries me you won't see these aggressors as aggressors if they're BLM...

1 - I am a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, white male who until recently identified as a straight male. Nobody's discriminating against me. I am not a person of colour, I am not a woman, and like I said until recently I was not a member of the LGBT community (Well, not openly, anyway.) Nobody's discriminating against me in a way that has any effect. 

2 - a racism is just a cheeky way to describe an act of racism. IE: Nobody's shooting me in the back or targetting me for my skin colour or gender. 

3 - I think you're misrepresenting the data, more than anything else. You're misassociating. Supporting BLM and being a shitty person are not mutually exclusive, nor are they intrinsically linked. I am not saying someone who supports BLM is incapable of being a bad person or targeting your friend's business, and I'm not saying they're definitely a supporter or not. Those things are not related. I am saying that, given BLM's goals during all this, that rioting and vandalizing and looting are counterproductive to their cause. The more likely explanation is that these people were opportunists using the protests as an excuse to loot and plunder. They might even be hardcore supporters of BLM, but if that's the case then their act here is not a part of BLM's goals and thus they shouldn't represent the movement in your eyes. 

I don't think you should judge BLM or misrepresent their goals based on what a handful of folks did to your friend. Correlation is not causation, and looting is an unfortunate side effect when any large-scale protest happens. 



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And to think, if Trump was competent and removed section 230 he would've been banned even sooner.



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Banks are also dropping Trump. Gonna be interesting to see how far this goes. You can be the worst human on earth and no one cares, but cross with corporations' bottom line and you will see action.

With donors dropping, supporters being jailed and allies leaving it is only a matter of time until the movement isn't sustainable anymore. Not to mention the cultural stigma that will develop. That's how Germany curbed their Nazi problem. Granted it has been on the rise again in the past few years, but that is more of a symptom of the times rather than a systemic problem like the US has.



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Runa216 said:
KLAMarine said:

"From my position here, where nobody discriminates against me,"

>? Are you invulnerable from discrimination? How?

"I can certainly imagine myself retaliating violently if someone did a racism against me."

>What's a "racism"?

"Since I have empathy, I don't vilify those who would fight back. Not as aggressors, but as the victims lashing out."

>For the family business near my home, the people who tore the place down WERE aggressors. Clear and obvious aggressors: it worries me you won't see these aggressors as aggressors if they're BLM...

1 - I am a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, white male who until recently identified as a straight male. Nobody's discriminating against me. I am not a person of colour, I am not a woman, and like I said until recently I was not a member of the LGBT community (Well, not openly, anyway.) Nobody's discriminating against me in a way that has any effect. 

2 - a racism is just a cheeky way to describe an act of racism. IE: Nobody's shooting me in the back or targetting me for my skin colour or gender. 

3 - I think you're misrepresenting the data, more than anything else. You're misassociating. Supporting BLM and being a shitty person are not mutually exclusive, nor are they intrinsically linked. I am not saying someone who supports BLM is incapable of being a bad person or targeting your friend's business, and I'm not saying they're definitely a supporter or not. Those things are not related. I am saying that, given BLM's goals during all this, that rioting and vandalizing and looting are counterproductive to their cause. The more likely explanation is that these people were opportunists using the protests as an excuse to loot and plunder. They might even be hardcore supporters of BLM, but if that's the case then their act here is not a part of BLM's goals and thus they shouldn't represent the movement in your eyes. 

I don't think you should judge BLM or misrepresent their goals based on what a handful of folks did to your friend. Correlation is not causation, and looting is an unfortunate side effect when any large-scale protest happens. 

I don't believe either that only peaceful protests can bring about change. At the very least an act of defiance is needed to start the road to change and protesting in designated protest areas isn't it.

However: "I am saying that, given BLM's goals during all this, that rioting and vandalizing and looting are counterproductive to their cause" You are contradicting yourself, promoting violent resistance while saying it's counter productive.

There is a difference between acts of defiance and violent protests. Look at the Gaza strip, violence isn't getting them anywhere. Any act of defiance garnering them outside pressure on Israel, is eroded again by continuing acts of violence, keeping the status quo in place.

Blockades can be effective, random violence never is. Block major road arteries away from city centers, that will vastly reduce the chance of looters taking advantage as well.



SvennoJ said:
Runa216 said:

1 - I am a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, white male who until recently identified as a straight male. Nobody's discriminating against me. I am not a person of colour, I am not a woman, and like I said until recently I was not a member of the LGBT community (Well, not openly, anyway.) Nobody's discriminating against me in a way that has any effect. 

2 - a racism is just a cheeky way to describe an act of racism. IE: Nobody's shooting me in the back or targetting me for my skin colour or gender. 

3 - I think you're misrepresenting the data, more than anything else. You're misassociating. Supporting BLM and being a shitty person are not mutually exclusive, nor are they intrinsically linked. I am not saying someone who supports BLM is incapable of being a bad person or targeting your friend's business, and I'm not saying they're definitely a supporter or not. Those things are not related. I am saying that, given BLM's goals during all this, that rioting and vandalizing and looting are counterproductive to their cause. The more likely explanation is that these people were opportunists using the protests as an excuse to loot and plunder. They might even be hardcore supporters of BLM, but if that's the case then their act here is not a part of BLM's goals and thus they shouldn't represent the movement in your eyes. 

I don't think you should judge BLM or misrepresent their goals based on what a handful of folks did to your friend. Correlation is not causation, and looting is an unfortunate side effect when any large-scale protest happens. 

I don't believe either that only peaceful protests can bring about change. At the very least an act of defiance is needed to start the road to change and protesting in designated protest areas isn't it.

However: "I am saying that, given BLM's goals during all this, that rioting and vandalizing and looting are counterproductive to their cause" You are contradicting yourself, promoting violent resistance while saying it's counter productive.

There is a difference between acts of defiance and violent protests. Look at the Gaza strip, violence isn't getting them anywhere. Any act of defiance garnering them outside pressure on Israel, is eroded again by continuing acts of violence, keeping the status quo in place.

Blockades can be effective, random violence never is. Block major road arteries away from city centers, that will vastly reduce the chance of looters taking advantage as well.

To be fair I didn't say that a solution had been found, yet. I am not saying that we NEED violence or that BLM/Antifa needs to be violent, just that historically that has been the bottom line. as it currently stands, the BLM protests have been done with intent of peaceful resistance and nonviolence. I just acknowledge that, if things don't change, that goal and mission statement might need to change. 



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Runa216 said:
KLAMarine said:

"From my position here, where nobody discriminates against me,"

>? Are you invulnerable from discrimination? How?

"I can certainly imagine myself retaliating violently if someone did a racism against me."

>What's a "racism"?

"Since I have empathy, I don't vilify those who would fight back. Not as aggressors, but as the victims lashing out."

>For the family business near my home, the people who tore the place down WERE aggressors. Clear and obvious aggressors: it worries me you won't see these aggressors as aggressors if they're BLM...

1 - I am a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, white male who until recently identified as a straight male. Nobody's discriminating against me. I am not a person of colour, I am not a woman, and like I said until recently I was not a member of the LGBT community (Well, not openly, anyway.) Nobody's discriminating against me in a way that has any effect. 

2 - a racism is just a cheeky way to describe an act of racism. IE: Nobody's shooting me in the back or targetting me for my skin colour or gender. 

3 - I think you're misrepresenting the data, more than anything else. You're misassociating. Supporting BLM and being a shitty person are not mutually exclusive, nor are they intrinsically linked. I am not saying someone who supports BLM is incapable of being a bad person or targeting your friend's business, and I'm not saying they're definitely a supporter or not. Those things are not related. I am saying that, given BLM's goals during all this, that rioting and vandalizing and looting are counterproductive to their cause. The more likely explanation is that these people were opportunists using the protests as an excuse to loot and plunder. They might even be hardcore supporters of BLM, but if that's the case then their act here is not a part of BLM's goals and thus they shouldn't represent the movement in your eyes. 

I don't think you should judge BLM or misrepresent their goals based on what a handful of folks did to your friend. Correlation is not causation, and looting is an unfortunate side effect when any large-scale protest happens. 

1. Still not seeing the part that's supposed to make you invulnerable to discrimination...

2. If I shot you in the back, would I be guilty of a "racism"?



JWeinCom said:
Runa216 said:

and while I truly do wish we could clean up our act without violence, I think at this point it's clear that the only way any progress is going to be made is if we protest and if we riot for what's truly important. 

Black lives are worth rioting over. 

LGBT+ Lives are worth rioting over.

Women are worth rioting over.

White dudes with fragile egos and more guns than common sense upset about losing an election is not a cause worth fighting for. These people are villains. Terrorists. And yes, historical context is important. There is no white genocide. There is no conspiracy against men or straight people, but there is a historical precedent for minorities being opressed. How some people out there don't get this is absolutely baffling to me. 

There are pretty much no circumstances where we are going to allow people to endorse violence. We are not going to distinguish based on whether the riot is "justified". I'll keep it simple because I'm not trying to start a debate, but you need to drop any pro-violence pro-riot rhetoric immediately.

This.
As someone who is LGBTQI+, there is never a reason to riot and I would be absolutely disgusted if people used the LGBTQI+ community as justification to riot and cause destruction and chaos.
Womens rights and black lives are the same.

There is never an excuse to riot, cause destruction and destroy lives and livelihoods, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about things.

A free nation typically has the freedom to "protest" as one of it's founding pillars of freedom, which typically accompanies other freedoms like free speech, freedom of assembly and freedom of association.

Protesting is one thing... It's peaceful.

But when it delves into chaos then the legal system needs to crack down hard, the reasoning for the riot is ultimately irrelevant at that point.

LGBTQI+, Women and People of Colour have continued to gain more rights and equal rights over time in Australia via peaceful means, through petitions, legislation, voting and peaceful protests, it works when you have a healthy democratic system that works for the people.



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