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CaptainExplosion said:
Ok, I don't want all Iranians dead, but one thing I said still stands; World War III is on the horizon and it's not even been four days into the new decade.

Thanks for nothing, America. You and your orange Nazi pigman "president" have practically killed us all. -_-

I agree. Your only choice is to hide in an underground bunker, with no communication to the outside world, and bring enough supplies for decades.



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Did you know most people have the ABILITY to be millionaires in their lifetimes with their current job situations (and really not even doing side work)? They just choose to spend their money in different ways (I'm not even going to say it's always "wasted" per se) instead of investing it.

The problem is most people don't get rich off of jobs. They get rich off of investments. But many people choose to not invest anything, and hope to "share" in this glorious wealth anyways, without risking any additional money of theirs.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

One instance of people not even taking advantage of companies TRYING to give them more money is 401ks.

20% of people don't even participate up to the match that their employer gives them. This is literally free money. Being that they aren't contributing generally a relatively small % of their salary (5-6%) into a 401k, I can only assume those people aren't contributing to ANY retirement accounts. They invest $0 into their future, but are supposed to be as wealthy as the people that invest and save tons of money?



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

I actually do socialize with people that "struggle". My best friend has declared bankruptcy twice on a low income, has two children with health issues that cost several thousand a year, and has always complained about the system.

They now make no more money, have changed their mindset to saving instead of spending, and are on their way to retiring "rich" on this same below average salary in 30 years.

I also frequently listen to Dave Ramsey, who has helped thousands and thousands of people who don't make a ton of money, have complained about the system, and also are doing just fine now.

The majority of workers choose to not negotiate their pay or ask for a raise. The option is available at every single job. I even negotiated my hourly pay during a job during college that started at $10 an hour. After I felt I was more valuable to the small business, I proved my worth and asked for a raise, and got bumped to $15 an hour.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon said:
Why is the acceleration of the gap a problem in an economy where everybody is better off than they were?

If I'm doing twice as good in 20 years (as are the majority of people) but we have 10 trillionaires instead of a bunch of billionaires, I quite frankly wouldnt give two shits. I don't have an issue with the business OWNERS making more money than the workers who choose to work for them, who choose to negotiate the salaries they work for, who choose to negotiate the PTO, and who quite frankly, still get a paycheck when the business is in the shitter and the owner is losing boatloads of money.

The problem is that "better off than they were" isn't the goal. An ideal societal outcome for a person in a terrible situation isn't to make sure they go from having one good meal a week to two and then calling it a win. As such, this odd relative viewpoint is functionally meaningless. The question should not be "Are people in general better off today than they were 100 years ago" but instead "Are people in general as well off as would be expected in a just economy?".

That isn't to say that everybody should be making the same amount of money, but it is saying that how about instead of dumping money into stock buybacks to make your CEO a shit-load of money, put some of that money into raises. It is saying that your CEO shouldn't be making bank while a company is laying off hundreds of workers. It is saying that as productivity increases among workers, so too should their pay.

Income inequality is evidence that things are not happening the way they should. The rich are getting richer and saying "Oh, you are better off than you were 100 years ago so I shouldn't need to pay you enough to afford suitable housing". Wealth inequality is not the issue itself, but it is instead evidence of the greater issues with how wealth is being distributed within the economy. I don't care if there are 100 billionaires or 10 trillionaires, but I would care, for example, if Amazon reduced CEO pay to increase wages and improve working conditions for the people working in their warehouses...

Last edited by sundin13 - on 03 January 2020

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Regarding wages not keeping up with inflation...very very low wage jobs have struggled to keep up, but I was also reading an interesting article the other day how GDP has largely ignored the "value" of many free services available in today's society (think Facebook, Google Maps, etc etc), and that society is actually much better off than many people have painted.

I can't personally speak about insurance costs cause I pay about 10-15% more per month now than I did in 2014 when I graduated college. Every job I've had has absorbed the majority of any increases.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Wait a second...that shows that workers earnings have increased faster than inflation (which includes all costs...including health)? Doesn't that contradict what you just said...that wages have been stagnant, and aren't keeping up with all these costs of living?



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Regarding the free things again...in 2007, I couldn't download League of Legends. It did not exist.

Fast forward a few years, and the internet that cost me the exact same amount could download League of Legends (at no additional charge).

Fast forward a few years, and the internet that still doesn't seem to increase in price (but has gotten massively faster, with lower latency), can now download free games faster than ever. Games like League of Legends are more robust than ever. And me playing it is still providing substantial value to me despite costing me $0 extra.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon said:
Regarding the free things again...in 2007, I couldn't download League of Legends. It did not exist.

Fast forward a few years, and the internet that cost me the exact same amount could download League of Legends (at no additional charge).

Fast forward a few years, and the internet that still doesn't seem to increase in price (but has gotten massively faster, with lower latency), can now download free games faster than ever. Games like League of Legends are more robust than ever. And me playing it is still providing substantial value to me despite costing me $0 extra.

Ah yes! League of Legends! The true test of societal and economic prosperity. I heard that the UN is considering using "Access to League" as one of their measures of economic freedom in their upcoming indices.

Also, I don't know about you, but my internet price has gone way up over the last 5 years.



SpokenTruth said:

Have you seen the rate of increase in healthcare costs, housing, education, etc...  Are wages keeping pace with those?  So it doesn't mean shit if you make 20% more now than 10 years ago if your housing costs have gone up 40%, insurance up 100%, education up even more.

Yep, in the last ~50 years, adjusted for inflation, healthcare has gone up like 500%, housing gone up over 100%, college tuition gone up like 150% and wages have gone up like 35%.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.