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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

Jaicee said:

What we saw on Tuesday was a smart and productive policy debate. I'm not sure what the hell last night was, but a policy debate it wasn't.

I remember last night as pretty much three hours of everyone accusing everyone else of racism and the like, responding with deflective whataboutism in each case, and generally avoiding any actual discussion of what they intend to do as president. It was like spending three hours on Twitter: I could FEEL myself losing brain cells as the whole miserable affair drudged on! I literally learned nothing new about where any of the candidates stand.

What happened last night is exactly how everyone else stereotypes today's left to be in the worst way; it was similar, I think you could say, to how politics work at America's elite liberal arts universities, with the differences that 1) no one got fired, and 2) it was older people who should know better acting that way. 

Don't get me wrong, with Trump calling for members of Congress to be deported to countries they weren't born in because of their skin color, yeah I'd say racism is a worthy topic of discussion in these debates. Tuesday's dialogue around topics like the question of slavery reparations (which I am very much for!) demonstrated a much more constructive way to have that debate though.

I also think it's fair game for candidates to call each other's records into question, but when so doing reaches the point of supplanting nearly all platform discussion and largely takes over the whole "debate", it becomes the perception of the viewer that all of these people are phonies and posers and don't have any plans to improve their lives. I think that's the general impression that most people outside the bubble walked away from last night with (assuming they bothered to watch the whole thing).

Furthermore, on the infrequent occasions that the candidates did actually manage to discuss what they intend to do as president, it may not have been in Spanish this time, but it was still usually in a language I couldn't understand that involved throwing out a bunch of numbers that mean nothing to me.

It's a telling thing that I liked Andrew Yang's performance the best of all the candidates, considering that he still had exactly one solution to all of America's problems on offer. One was still more than what many of the candidates offered, in my observation, and he offered it in English. He also stood out to me for not involving himself in the aforementioned, and I hate to use this cliched expression but there is no better one, circular firing squad. He even briefly voiced his annoyance at the, appropriately termed, "planned attack speeches", or at least I think that was his wording of it (it was the essence anyway), toward the end. He also just showed himself to be the most human and relatable person on the stage despite being from the business world. He talked about suicide rates and rates of anxiety and depression being at an all-time highs, drug addiction being epidemic, about the needs of women enduring sexual harassment at their workplace, about women's work often not even being recorded as socially impactful, about average life expectancy falling in this country: all issues that actually affect my community. I don't remember any other candidate talking about any of that. He had one overly simple solution for all of it, but he at least has a human spirit and accepts that people don't have to be perfect, unlike everyone else on the stage. It was refreshing. I hope he gets a boost in the polls as a result. He earned it.

A proponent of the whole nature and tone of last night's debate explained to me that "it's about accountability". No it wasn't, it was about a bunch of hypocrites opportunistically pimping off Kamala Harris's magic moment against Biden in the first debate round in far less intellectually honest ways! Biden emerged from this probably relatively stronger, if anything, in that the fact that he was able to fight back so many attacks to a draw will probably impress some voters about his ability to fight back Donald Trump's inevitable character assassination game in a debate with him! No one outside the Democratic bubble will like whatever the hell it was that happened last night (because it WASN'T a policy debate) and none of it will affect Joe Biden's clear frontrunner status. Nothing like that should ever happen again. Worst of all four debates so far. Easily.

Yeah I totally agree. One of the worst debates imo. Being a progressive I'm mostly likely biased though. Gabbard was a little too polite at times, I felt she could've brought a lot to the table if she was more assertive. Yang brought up really good points and I'm glad he was finally able to get a word in this time. Gillibrand's piece on race relations was effective and strong.

Overall it felt like a boxing match performance with Harris and Biden the focal point of it. I'm afraid it might've worked in Biden's favor.



 

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I find the Harris vs Biden rivalry amusing b/c I frankly can't really stand either of them lol. Cool to see Tulsi rip into Kamala, she looked pretty pissed haha. I really had no idea about that shady track record of hers as a prosecutor. Don't want to prejudge too much but.. I had a feeling she was no good. She strikes me as a more angry version of Hillary. No thanks.

I think Tulsi's statement about Trump "supporting al-qaeda" was a bit absurd. Like I think I get what she meant, with him being somewhat in bed with Saudi Arabia who harbors those types of groups, but she should have probably clarified that. And isn't that more of a Neocon thing? She's still by far the best, most decent candidate on that stage and the only one I'd vote for on the Dem ticket aside from Yang, possibly Warren, and possibly Bernie.

Edit: Just saw Andrew Yangs portion of the debate too (which is all I'll be watching along with the Tulsi laying into Kamala haha). Very well done. Spoke very frankly about practical issues facing Americans. And that bit at the end about media focusing more on his freaking wardrobe than his policies was awesome. He still needs more than 7 minutes to explain just how $1000 a month for every American 18-65 isn't going to ultimately produce rapid inflation, as I'm concerned about this too. But other than that I like this guy more every time I hear him, and glad he actually got some real time to speak last night - rather than an under 2 minute stint punctuated with a cut mic lol..

Last edited by DarthMetalliCube - on 01 August 2019

 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

jason1637 said:

Ughhh I'm mean it's true but she shouldn't have said it. It's in poor taste and sounds really petty, a bad decision on her part.



 

Here's some interesting data on social media mentions. Not all the candidates were measured, sadly, but almost everyone was, and certain those who remotely mattered in the long run. Only one I wish they'd tracked that they didn't was Williamson.

https://awario.com/blog/democratic-debates-2020-social-media-analysis/

The usual suspects got the most mentions, with Bernie coming out on top in that measure. The data is very noisy though, so trying to come up with real conclusions feels a bit like splitting hairs. A few things I did notice, however:

1. Yang got nearly as many mentions as Buttigieg, and they were extremely positive. Highest postive mention over negative mention spread of the entire group. I kind of wonder if maybe he broke through, at least a little bit, maybe to Buttigieg's tier.

2. Cory Booker doesn't seem to have made that much of an impression. Not a ton of mentions, barely more positive than negative, but it looks like social media thought his performance was adequate, because it's almost the only part of the month of July where his mentions were more positive than negative.

3. Of the tracked candidates, the only one with more negative than positive mention was Kirsten Gillibrand, however, after the debate, that changed for the first time, so she clearly made a good impression with this recent debate. I for one felt there was a bit of a change in tone with her that I think worked to her benefit, made her appear more sympathetic and less combative without damaging her brand of being a fighter.

4. There are also word cloud analyses of each candidate's mentions. These are mostly boring, in my opinion, but I was amused by Gabbards, which was the only one to include the word "actually" in it. Somehow that is just so descriptive of Gabbard fans.



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Some charts about the second debate: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-second-democratic-debate-in-5-charts/

The most interesting to me is that Yang and Gabbard won the most Twitter followers after the second debate with 25841 for Yang while Gabbard got 21629 new followers. Williamson comes third with over 17k new followers.

You can also see the total amount of followers each one has. Sanders is in front by leaps and bounds with over 9M followers, followed by... Booker with 4.3M and Biden with 3.6M, anybody else has less than 3M followers, although Harris stands at 2.996M, so she's almost there. And I would never have expected Williamson to have over 2.7M Followers, almost the same amount as Warren.

Also, much less people watched the second debate compared to the first one.



Hopefully this reflects on the polls.






No movement out of the margin of error, though Harris -2 and Warren +3 seems statistically significant and fits the second debate narrative.

Last edited by haxxiy - on 02 August 2019

 

 

 

 

 

the-pi-guy said:
I suspect Biden is ahead, less due to name recognition and more due to the more progressive votes being spread out.

Eh I'd argue that there are more moderate candidates than there are progressives and moderate Democrats tend to cling to Biden because of his experience and love for Obama.