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Forums - Politics - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

SpokenTruth said:
21 states have a closed primary/caucus. 12 more are semi-closed. This means either independents cannot vote at all (closed) or there are hoops to jump through first (semi-closed).

I'll let some of you try to figure out why the party doesn't want independent voters helping nominate their candidate.

You make this too easy.

Open Primary States Biden Won:

Washington (Flip)

Michigan (Flip)

Minnesota (Flip)

Texas

South Carolina

Arkansas

Mississippi

Alabama

Virginia

Tennessee

Missouri

Illinois

Open Primaries Bernie Won:

Iowa? (Flip, Caucus)

North Dakota (Caucus)

Vermont

Utah

List from: https://voteforbernie.org/



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gergroy said:
I’m not sure how all these sanders supporters think Biden is a worse matchup with trump than sanders. If sanders couldn’t even get the majority of Democrats to support him, how do you think he would have done with independents? The fact is, Sanders was just as flawed a candidate as Biden is, just in different ways. There is no such thing as a perfect candidate. Cry your tears guys and move on. It’s trump vs Biden. If you don’t like your options, pick the one that you think will do less harm. Something I wish more people had done in the last election...

Sanders had the mainstream media, powerful interest groups and the DNC trying everything to down play him

Biden had the mainstream media, powerful interest groups and the DNC trying everything to up play him

Both these things made it very difficult for Sanders and much easier for Biden 

If the establishment had gotten behind Sanders like they did for Biden things may be very different 

FYI this is how many Sanders supporters see it, which obviously angers them 



SpokenTruth said:
Moren said:

You make this too easy.

Open Primary States Biden Won:

Washington (Flip)

Michigan (Flip)

Minnesota (Flip)

Texas

South Carolina

Arkansas

Mississippi

Alabama

Virginia

Tennessee

Missouri

Illinois

Open Primaries Bernie Won:

Iowa? (Flip, Caucus)

North Dakota (Caucus)

Vermont

Utah

List from: https://voteforbernie.org/

Ballotpedia needs to update their map.

https://ballotpedia.org/Closed_primary

That doesn't change the data or point much.  19 closed primary/caucuses and 10 semi-closed primary/caucuses. The party doesn't want independent voters or grass roots candidates interfering. Just look at why superdelegates exist.  They were literally established for that explicit purpose.

Okay.

First of all, the DNC or the party as a whole does not decide how individual states conduct their primaries. There's no hidden forces pulling strings.

Second, as I have just shown you - an open primary would have changed nothing. Just more Bidenslides.



A bit ago, I mentioned the fact that a Fox News poll showed Biden leading Trump among voters over 65, who had supported Trump by a wide margin back in 2016. I found a more at-length article on the subject of Biden's generational appeal according to recent polls and couldn't resist sharing because it's downright fascinating! There's now lots of evidence that Biden's generational appeal is significantly different from what we've seen the Democrats win -- and lose -- with in and around the Obama era. Check out this part of Bill Scher's assessment:

"In most recent polls, Biden bests Donald Trump with voters under 40 as well as those 65 and over, but not in between. For example, in the March ABC/Washington Post poll, Biden wins with seniors by 15 percentage points, but loses 40-somethings by 17 points. Monmouth University tracks voter preference for those 55 and over, and between 35 and 54; in March, Biden won the older set by four points, and lost the middle-aged set by 13.

Biden’s current V-shaped pattern of generational support is a departure from the last two Democratic president nominees. When plotting the support of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton from the exit poll data of their respective presidential campaigns, you draw a downward diagonal line; the older the voter, the weaker the support.

Both Obama and Clinton represented cultural shifts, perhaps diminishing Democratic competitiveness among seniors who had otherwise been open to a party long identified with Social Security and Medicare. The presumptive Democratic nominee in 2020 symbolizes comforting nostalgia more than unsettling change. You can’t even throw an “OK, Boomer” taunt at Joe Biden because, at 77, he’s too old to be Baby Boomer. (If Biden wins, he will be the first member of the Silent Generation to occupy the presidency.) That helps explain his pull with the 65-and-over crowd."

See what I mean? Interesting, no? This would probably explain the recent turnaround we've seen for Biden's fortunes according to the most recent poll out of Florida -- among the demographically oldest states in the country, and one of the most hotly contested in presidential elections. The coronavirus outbreak has refocused the nation of late on the topic of health care, and older voters (the most vulnerable) seem to be taking the matter more seriously than Trump and right wing media like Fox News have been. Their lives, more than anyone else's, hang in the balance, after all!

The weakness in Scher's analysis though lies in his subsequent inability to comprehend Biden's weakness among middle-aged voters -- Generation X if you will. We* are not paid much attention as a group (never have been either, even as kids), mostly because Gen X has been a smaller generation, but now it may become relevant to the national political conversation to examine the characteristic qualities of Gen X as an overall group. That may be a worthy topic for this thread. I've got some theories about that, but would like other people's input on this subject first. After all, we've got a number of contributors here who fall in this age category here on this thread.

*I consider myself at least spiritually part of Gen X, though exact definitions are a little squishy concerning whether I qualify or not. But seriously, If you're the age of Pete Buttigieg, in my mind you've probably got more in common with somebody who is today 45 than someone who is today 25 or 17 because you had a largely pre-internet childhood.



Not voting Trump is a vote for Biden. That's how I intend to support the Democrats nominee.



 

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tsogud said:

Not voting Trump is a vote for Biden. That's how I intend to support the Democrats nominee.

I'm confused. Is this a round-about way of saying you're just not going to vote? 



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
tsogud said:

Not voting Trump is a vote for Biden. That's how I intend to support the Democrats nominee.

I'm confused. Is this a round-about way of saying you're just not going to vote? 

Of course I'm going to vote.



 

tsogud said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

I'm confused. Is this a round-about way of saying you're just not going to vote? 

Of course I'm going to vote.

Ok, is this a round-about way of saying you're voting for a candidate who's not viable and thus essentially throwing your vote away? 



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
tsogud said:

Of course I'm going to vote.

Ok, is this a round-about way of saying you're voting for a candidate who's not viable and thus essentially throwing your vote away? 

No, I'm basically voting down ballot Dem as I like my current Reps. Just not for the presidency, I find both "viable" candidates objectionable for different reasons. I let my voice be heard in the primary about who I wanted to be president, but most of the Democratic electorate thought otherwise. I'm completely fine with that, that's how democracy works, if they want Joe Biden good for them they can vote for him. And no, I don't wanna vote Green or third party as I don't like those candidates either.

Last edited by tsogud - on 10 April 2020

 

If you have no intentions of voting for Biden, own it instead of patting yourself on the back and washing your hands.