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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

jason1637 said:
SpokenTruth said:

18 U.S. Code § 599. Promise of appointment by candidate. 

"Whoever, being a candidate, directly or indirectly promises or pledges the appointment, or the use of his influence or support for the appointment of any person to any public or private position or employment, for the purpose of procuring support in his candidacy shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if the violation was willful, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."

So it's a gray area and really pertains to cabinet positions. Even then it's never really enforced because a candidate can just retort that they have a 1st Amendment right to announce whomever they choose.  The primary issue though is proving that Trump nominated someone to a cabinet position simply to procure their support.

Well tbh we don't know if Biden promised it could have been a "you'd be helpful in the executive branch", "i'd love to work with you more", "i can see us working together if im elected" type of thing.

Everything is based on speculation from two very tame Tweets.



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jason1637 said:
SpokenTruth said:

18 U.S. Code § 599. Promise of appointment by candidate. 

"Whoever, being a candidate, directly or indirectly promises or pledges the appointment, or the use of his influence or support for the appointment of any person to any public or private position or employment, for the purpose of procuring support in his candidacy shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if the violation was willful, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."

So it's a gray area and really pertains to cabinet positions. Even then it's never really enforced because a candidate can just retort that they have a 1st Amendment right to announce whomever they choose.  The primary issue though is proving that Trump nominated someone to a cabinet position simply to procure their support.

Well tbh we don't know if Biden promised it could have been a "you'd be helpful in the executive branch", "i'd love to work with you more", "i can see us working together if im elected" type of thing.

I think that'd be categorized as an "indirect promise" by the code and thus could still be considered illegal. He'll get away with it if he is committing a crime anyway, he's a rich and white lol

Last edited by tsogud - on 24 March 2020

 

NightlyPoe said:

I suppose I might have spoken too soon. This odd Cuomo movement has to work its way through.

Personally, I don't get it at all. Cuomo utterly failed and is now running around screaming for help and passing the buck. You'd think that Gavin Newsom would be getting a second look in terms of handling the outbreak since he, y'know, actually managed to keep it from becoming a crisis. It's been an odd example of failing upwards.

California hasn't done as much tests as New York. I do agree that in general Cuomo isn't that great. 



Such a shame Bernie didn't endorse Yang. It seems like UBI would've kept the world moving and prevented the economy from tanking.



LurkerJ said:
Such a shame Bernie didn't endorse Yang. It seems like UBI would've kept the world moving and prevented the economy from tanking.

I think you mixed up the names there...



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RolStoppable said:
So only Biden and Sanders left now? The winner between the two gets to lose against Trump.

Incorrect. If Its Bernie (how unlikely that is due to everything) he actually has an easy shot a Trump now due to the virus and market crash. On the other hand Biden, due to his clear cognitive decline, his team hiding him away and whenever he does show up he says something.... Biden like (lol) he'd get destroyed. Again though, the crash and virus have made Trump weaker so even Biden might... and that's a very small might, might be able to win. But Yea, I'm 100% sure right now that if it was Bernie this would be fairly easy now.



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RolStoppable said:
uran10 said:

Incorrect. If Its Bernie (how unlikely that is due to everything) he actually has an easy shot a Trump now due to the virus and market crash. On the other hand Biden, due to his clear cognitive decline, his team hiding him away and whenever he does show up he says something.... Biden like (lol) he'd get destroyed. Again though, the crash and virus have made Trump weaker so even Biden might... and that's a very small might, might be able to win. But Yea, I'm 100% sure right now that if it was Bernie this would be fairly easy now.

Did I miss something major and the election system has changed dramatically in the USA? The president still gets voted by the American people, right? So your confidence is very misplaced.

That's exactly why my confidence isn't misplaced. Let's start with the "vote blue no matter who" crowd. They will vote blue even if its Bernie. They have this crazy hare for Trump and they just want him gone, this is the vote that's putting Biden over because they have this misconception that he can beat Trump (he needs the luck of the irish, and help from god for that to even remotely happen). Bernie has his supporters + that vote at the start. 2nd Trump won the independent vote in 2016, and will win it in 2020 unless the person who actually leads with independents is the nominee. That's Bernie again. Independents decide the election, they're the largest voting block and a lot of them stayed home in 2016 because it was Trump V clinton. It'll be the same and the few that come out will go to Trump, unless virus / market crash ends up being that bad.

While the primary may not look like it the youth vote is actually up and up a decent amount, again its just the vote blue no matter who boomer crowd is also up massively. The older folk always go republican while the democrats rely on the youth vote to save them, Biden doesn't win Youths while they're overwhelmingly with Bernie. Majority of them will stay home with Biden while with Bernie they'll come out in full force in the general.

Also in head to head, Bernie Debating Trump would be easy for Bernie. Trump pulls you down to his level and beats you with experience, he uses the skeletons in your closet and your bad voting record against you. Bernie is by far the best in each of these regards since he doesn't have those and on top of that he always pivots back to policy which he would dominate Trump on.

He goes on fox news, goes into trump county and has them giving him standing ovations etc. They love him and would vote for him if he's the nominee but then there's Biden the guy that shipped away their jobs etc. Honestly, Bernie beating Trump seems so easy, yet its more difficult than it seems because of how the establishment dems have made him so much more difficult to beat with russia gate and impeachment etc. Bernie's 1 real flaw is that he gave into russiagate somewhat and that did actually hurt him with independents. But if the choice is between someone who has been fighting for them all their lives against the establishment or Trump? People will go to Bernie, he's a real populist and this is a populist era. If we put up Biden v Trump the fake populist being Trump will destroy him while the real Populist Bernie would be able to back up his words with his record and knows where the people are hurting and can speak directly to them. The Dem primary has lots of rigging, heavy media BS, propaganda at play. Lots of clear voter suppression and voter fraud that Biden supporters gleefully overlook because "they're winning" not knowing that Trump will destroy Biden without literal divine intervention.

But Yes, Bernie wins the voting blocks that you need for the general, independents and youth. The normie democrats will vote for him and so will the actual left of america who actually make up a chunk of independents. He'll also win the anti-establishment vote, which is the largest chunk of independents. He brings out non voters as well. Honestly, anyone saying that Bernie would have a harder time vs Trump isn't facing reality, but anyone saying it'll be easy also isn't. But the fact that Bernie is the antithesis of Trump is why he's the actual best shot and why he would have destroyed him in 2016.



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RolStoppable said:
uran10 said:

That's exactly why my confidence isn't misplaced. Let's start with the "vote blue no matter who" crowd. They will vote blue even if its Bernie. They have this crazy hare for Trump and they just want him gone, this is the vote that's putting Biden over because they have this misconception that he can beat Trump (he needs the luck of the irish, and help from god for that to even remotely happen). Bernie has his supporters + that vote at the start. 2nd Trump won the independent vote in 2016, and will win it in 2020 unless the person who actually leads with independents is the nominee. That's Bernie again. Independents decide the election, they're the largest voting block and a lot of them stayed home in 2016 because it was Trump V clinton. It'll be the same and the few that come out will go to Trump, unless virus / market crash ends up being that bad.

While the primary may not look like it the youth vote is actually up and up a decent amount, again its just the vote blue no matter who boomer crowd is also up massively. The older folk always go republican while the democrats rely on the youth vote to save them, Biden doesn't win Youths while they're overwhelmingly with Bernie. Majority of them will stay home with Biden while with Bernie they'll come out in full force in the general.

Also in head to head, Bernie Debating Trump would be easy for Bernie. Trump pulls you down to his level and beats you with experience, he uses the skeletons in your closet and your bad voting record against you. Bernie is by far the best in each of these regards since he doesn't have those and on top of that he always pivots back to policy which he would dominate Trump on.

He goes on fox news, goes into trump county and has them giving him standing ovations etc. They love him and would vote for him if he's the nominee but then there's Biden the guy that shipped away their jobs etc. Honestly, Bernie beating Trump seems so easy, yet its more difficult than it seems because of how the establishment dems have made him so much more difficult to beat with russia gate and impeachment etc. Bernie's 1 real flaw is that he gave into russiagate somewhat and that did actually hurt him with independents. But if the choice is between someone who has been fighting for them all their lives against the establishment or Trump? People will go to Bernie, he's a real populist and this is a populist era. If we put up Biden v Trump the fake populist being Trump will destroy him while the real Populist Bernie would be able to back up his words with his record and knows where the people are hurting and can speak directly to them. The Dem primary has lots of rigging, heavy media BS, propaganda at play. Lots of clear voter suppression and voter fraud that Biden supporters gleefully overlook because "they're winning" not knowing that Trump will destroy Biden without literal divine intervention.

But Yes, Bernie wins the voting blocks that you need for the general, independents and youth. The normie democrats will vote for him and so will the actual left of america who actually make up a chunk of independents. He'll also win the anti-establishment vote, which is the largest chunk of independents. He brings out non voters as well. Honestly, anyone saying that Bernie would have a harder time vs Trump isn't facing reality, but anyone saying it'll be easy also isn't. But the fact that Bernie is the antithesis of Trump is why he's the actual best shot and why he would have destroyed him in 2016.

The corona crisis will play too much into Trump's hands. There will be too many projections with way too high death tolls floating around, so Trump just needs to pick up on them and proclaim, "They said millions would die, but thanks to our management through this crisis, less than 10% of that number actually died." Followed by crowds chanting "USA! USA! USA!" and then the average American goes with the flow and votes Trump. Don't underestimate the collective short term memory of US citizens.

Eh, at the same time this entire crisis has highlighted how needed Bernie's entire Agenda has been putting him in the best position to take advantage of the fallout of this virus, especially since we'll go straight into an economic downturn. The main reason its playing into his hands is because the MSM refuses to air Bernie's live streams that he does everyday addressing the virus and what steps should be taken, speaking to doctors and such. Honestly, the reason the virus is working so well for him is because Biden is supposedly the nominee and has disappeared while the person addressing it can't even get a chance to speak to the public on main stream news about how he would address it. Its going to be hard like I said, but its not gonna be that easy as this revealed a lot of the underlying issues with our system that Bernie has been speaking out in very blatant ways. I think it would sway more to Bernie if it was Bernie.



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Bernie is a loser. He couldn't beat Clinton, and now Biden is kicking his ass and is doing a lot better than Clinton did. The white working class and rural folk that voted for Bernie in 2016 flipped and are now voting for Biden.

The question is why is Bernie doing worse in 2020 compared to four years ago? He isn't running against Hillary Clinton.



uran10 said:
RolStoppable said:
So only Biden and Sanders left now? The winner between the two gets to lose against Trump.

Incorrect. If Its Bernie (how unlikely that is due to everything) he actually has an easy shot a Trump now due to the virus and market crash. On the other hand Biden, due to his clear cognitive decline, his team hiding him away and whenever he does show up he says something.... Biden like (lol) he'd get destroyed. Again though, the crash and virus have made Trump weaker so even Biden might... and that's a very small might, might be able to win. But Yea, I'm 100% sure right now that if it was Bernie this would be fairly easy now.

Polls still show Bernie losing and Biden winning against Trump.