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Forums - Politics - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

LurkerJ said:
uran10 said:
Bernie, AOC..... you all are.... disappointing. Biden has to be hit on electability. instead they help him on it... At this point it really feels like they're trying their best to lose.

What happened? 

They pretty much are saying Biden can win / they'll back Biden if he's the nominee when they both know that Biden can't win and that he's not fit to be president. They're making it harder for him to win because electability is what this election is and they're bolstering that false claim that Biden has going.



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LurkerJ said:
Raven said:

Which bogus smears? That she has and still continues to funnel money to people involved with an extremist Hare Krishna offshoot cult? That she was one of the earlier politicians making liberal use of the term "radical Islam" and criticized Obama for 'not' using it even though it's pretty much become a buzzword for those on the far-right trying to enact laws that discriminate against Muslims? Her alignment with PM Modi of India? Her willingness to dub herself a "hawk" on Islamic terrorism while simultaneously playing the pacifist with Assad of Syria who has been slaughtering his own people for years? 

I'd say she has a lot to rightfully answer for. 

lol. The term radical Islam enables discrimination, come on now. Critizing religious radicalism should be encourged, just because Bush lied to his teeth about everything he said it doesn't mean that we should turn a blind eye to the fact that radical Islam is a problem.

If that is all you have on Tulsi, she can definitely sleep well at night.

It's not the only thing I have against her? You quoted my post which contains more than that topic. On the topic of "radical Islam" though, why is it important specifically? I feel like on the whole we are capable of focusing on specific extremist groups instead of trying to tie and entire religion up in association with our enemies. We don't do it with other major religions so I think it's a bit disingenuous that we do it with that one, and this is speaking as someone who is not religious.



Raven said:
LurkerJ said:

lol. The term radical Islam enables discrimination, come on now. Critizing religious radicalism should be encourged, just because Bush lied to his teeth about everything he said it doesn't mean that we should turn a blind eye to the fact that radical Islam is a problem.

If that is all you have on Tulsi, she can definitely sleep well at night.

It's not the only thing I have against her? You quoted my post which contains more than that topic. On the topic of "radical Islam" though, why is it important specifically? I feel like on the whole we are capable of focusing on specific extremist groups instead of trying to tie and entire religion up in association with our enemies. We don't do it with other major religions so I think it's a bit disingenuous that we do it with that one, and this is speaking as someone who is not religious.

That's because most of what you mentioned is weak. She met with Asad to stop the war, good on her. Our leaders have been meeting and making allies with monsterous regimes for less noble reasons that do not including stopping wars, but furthering them, yet Tulsi has to atone for her sins publicy each time on the stage for seeking peace. I still don't understand what purity test Tulsi has failed by meeting with Asad that Obama, Hillary and Trump haven't failed ten times over by letting the Gulf states and Israel wreck havoc in the middle east without a slap on the wrist.

As for tying radical Islam with the entire religion, I don't know who you mean by "we". The western societies by large have no problem with Muslims and have welcomed them with oepn arms, and they're the same societies that call out christian religious extremists regularly, no special treatments for any religion, if there was, the west wouldn't have progressed socially, but that's not really the point of discussion anyway. You want Tulsi to answer for using the term "radical Islam" and seemed to imply that Tulsi enables discrimination against muslims by using the term, which doesn't make sense. Not to mention, by being anti-war, Tulsi has done more to defend muslims than every POTUS, since most of the american wars leave Islamic countries in endless choas.



uran10 said:
LurkerJ said:

What happened? 

They pretty much are saying Biden can win / they'll back Biden if he's the nominee when they both know that Biden can't win and that he's not fit to be president. They're making it harder for him to win because electability is what this election is and they're bolstering that false claim that Biden has going.

Just watched a clip of Rachel Madow manipulating Bernie on national TV and framing Biden as the winner despite the fact that the race isn't over yet. It's disappointing that Bernie didn't push back on her narrative. Bernie is still in "restricted mode", he should be more rude towards Biden and assertive against these hosts and moderators if he wants to win.



NightlyPoe said:
Raven said:

It's baffling that people call out enabling behavior? Not sure I understand because you didn't feel like expanding. 

To begin with, I reject your premise is incorrect.  There was no movement to enact anti-Muslim laws.  In case you forgot, we've got that whole 1st Amendment thing that prevents it and a Supreme Court make up that's actually pretty touchy on the subject.*

Second, there is nothing enabling about accurately labeling something.  Pretending that there isn't a clear link between a radical form of that religion and terrorism, and instead memory holing the evidence by calling it by another name is just living in denial.

*Don't bother bringing up the travel ban.  That's another weird thing to be angry about.  Why would you want to import people from locations that are hot spots for potential violence against our citizens?  Not doing that is just blindingly rational policy that any responsible leader should enact.  If there were some Protestant sect in Liechtenstein who kept blowing stuff up, no one would have an issue with denying people from that country papers to hop on over.

It's not accurate. You can separate extremism from a huge religion far outnumbering the individuals in question. By this logic, the US has a Christian terrorist problem when it comes to groups like the KKK, I guess we should be having a conversation about Christian terrorism and trying to do something about that as well.

And yes, I'm aware of our Supreme Court's record on the 1st Amendment and it's relatively recent warped ruling that corporations are people which has caused a huge amount of issues in a short period of time. Forgive me if I'm not too convinced on their ability to properly uphold that amendment.



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NightlyPoe said:
Raven said:

It's not accurate. You can separate extremism from a huge religion far outnumbering the individuals in question.

Indeed you can separate the two.  One method is to label the extreme element as radical.  It's as simple as adding an adjective.

By this logic, the US has a Christian terrorist problem when it comes to groups like the KKK, I guess we should be having a conversation about Christian terrorism and trying to do something about that as well.

The US did indeed have a terrorist problem with the KKK.  They were and are labeled accurately as such and laws were put on the books to specifically combat them going back to the 19th century.  It's been a multi-decade task that has been pretty darn successful in suppressing that group.

And yes, I'm aware of our Supreme Court's record on the 1st Amendment and it's relatively recent warped ruling that corporations are people which has caused a huge amount of issues in a short period of time. Forgive me if I'm not too convinced on their ability to properly uphold that amendment.

Ah, yet another weird thing to get hung up on.  Yes, the Supreme Court applied precedent going back to the 19th century about applying Constitutional rights to corporations.  It was not radical or strange, and, in the end, they expanded the 1st Amendment's protections.

So, you've provided an example of how the current Supreme Court has an expansive view of the 1st Amendment.

Were they specifically called Christian extremists and was the issue referred to as an issue of Christian extremism?

And nope, I provided an example about how skewed and misguided the court has been in upholding it. Just because the precedent was set over a century ago doesn't make their rulings right. 



IcaroRibeiro said:
I'm sorry for the stereotyping, please forgive me if I'm been offensive but...

I just find amusing this thread has so many more pages than the republican one. I my mind most of the american gamers were actually Republicans

Mmm not sure where you get that notion..

I will concede that if anything, gamers often tend to have more of a libertarian bent and that, least in America, libertarianism is more associated with the right because of much of its fascination with the free market, 2nd amendment, and limited government power. Still, this seems to be changing, and there seem to be more like myself that have a slew of many left wing views along with libertarian ones. The libertarian association with gamers somewhat makes sense as there's that desire of gamers for artistic/creative freedom and the individual power/freedom you get while playing games which is comparable.

Additionally with regards to the popularity of the threads - there's the major factor that there's a heated primary going on right now, where the waters on the Republican side are pretty stagnant at this point vs the turbulent waters of the Democrat field. Trump's pretty much usurped the whole thing, and like 90% of the Repubs are behind him so there's really not much to discuss, or at least view heated debates/conflict. 

Raven said:
DarthMetalliCube said:

And don't get me wrong I don't hate all things Democrat. In fact I voted for John Kerry in '04 and Obama in '08. But I just hate what they've largely become in the last 5-10 years.

As I've said - if these guys can just let Tulsi into this one debate and speak for maybe more than 3 minutes total (half of which she's forced to respond to bogus smears) and actually talk policy.. and she's STILL hugely unpopular, I'll totally concede that she's done and need to leave. But I really just feel she needs that massive exposure on a major level. I point to the huge lift for Perrot in '92 as evidence that this could be significant. I mean the guy was a non-entity and a big TV special propelled him to 19% of the popular vote in the '92 general!

Sure, TV doesn't have the same influence and monopoly on exposure it once did and Podcasts/Youtube is great - but it's mostly a younger audience watching them, many of whom are either already in for Bernie or sitting it out anyway.

Which bogus smears? That she has and still continues to funnel money to people involved with an extremist Hare Krishna offshoot cult? That she was one of the earlier politicians making liberal use of the term "radical Islam" and criticized Obama for 'not' using it even though it's pretty much become a buzzword for those on the far-right trying to enact laws that discriminate against Muslims? Her alignment with PM Modi of India? Her willingness to dub herself a "hawk" on Islamic terrorism while simultaneously playing the pacifist with Assad of Syria who has been slaughtering his own people for years? 

I'd say she has a lot to rightfully answer for. 

My dude, there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "radical Islam" when it refers to an offshoot (granted an extremely minor one) of a religion slaughtering people, performing injustices and human rights abuses. As long as that distinction is made. The same way I have no problem referring to "radical Christians" that kill doctors at abortion clinics or burning crossing and wearing white hoods. If you're performing radical, deadly acts in the name of your religion, you are a radical/extremist group of that religion. Why in the shit is that controversial? If people can't distinguish between the benign/moderate element and the dangerous fringe extreme and discriminate because of it, that's their problem..

Hare Krishna money funneling? The hell? That's an extremely odd accusation that I've never heard before, and I've absorbed a ton of information over the years, so I'm wondering where the hell you're getting this one. Got some evidence/links? 

She's not "aligned" with PM Modi simply for meeting him and being diplomatic for god's sake. Obama did the same thing. But ya know.. he's of the establishment so he gets a free pass, and not every little thing is completely under the microscope and criticized like with Tulsi. And furthermore when it comes to Modi I can't help but feel there's a tinge of Hinduphobia here (ironically). Like, somehow I doubt a white Christian democrat doing the same with Modi would have been branded a "Modi supporter/adjacent/enabler" or whatever the shit label people pull out of their asses.

It's the same with Assad. Just because she doesn't support overthrowing a dictator and going in and installing our own like we've done time and time again, doesn't mean she enables or supports him in any way. She's repeatedly condemned him. What the hell is she supposed to do at this point, fly to Syria and throw goddamn eggs at his house?

Many Authoritarian leftists seem to have lost the plot when it comes to foreign policy, and that diplomacy and anti-intervention BY NO MEANS = "support." The same freaking way those liberals who were against the Iraq war (which most were, how times have changed..) were not "supporting Saddam Husein." Her argument with Assad is that going to war with him and/or overthrowing him will inevitably only lead to MORE chaos and instability, and thus more deaths. Again, look to Iraq and Afghanistan as an example. 

Those interested in our foreign policy here in the US operates and the corruption behind it should watch this doc. While it's not entirely related to this subject, it sheds some light on what Tulsi is talking about when she so often refers to "regime change wars" and why diplomacy should be emphasized over war or overthrowing these regimes. Shows how much of this military intervention is just part of a larger scheme of clandestine imperialism.

Last edited by DarthMetalliCube - on 08 March 2020

 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

DarthMetalliCube said:
Raven said:

Which bogus smears? That she has and still continues to funnel money to people involved with an extremist Hare Krishna offshoot cult? That she was one of the earlier politicians making liberal use of the term "radical Islam" and criticized Obama for 'not' using it even though it's pretty much become a buzzword for those on the far-right trying to enact laws that discriminate against Muslims? Her alignment with PM Modi of India? Her willingness to dub herself a "hawk" on Islamic terrorism while simultaneously playing the pacifist with Assad of Syria who has been slaughtering his own people for years? 

I'd say she has a lot to rightfully answer for. 

My dude, there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying "radical Islam" when it refers to an offshoot (granted an extremely minor one) of a religion slaughtering people, performing injustices and human rights abuses. As long as that distinction is made. The same way I have no problem referring to "radical Christians" that kill doctors at abortion clinics or burning crossing and wearing white hoods. If you're performing radical, deadly acts in the name of your religion, you are a radical/extremist group of that religion. Why in the shit is that controversial? If people can't distinguish between the benign/moderate element and the dangerous fringe extreme and discriminate because of it, that's their problem..

Hare Krishna money funneling? The hell? That's an extremely odd accusation that I've never heard before, and I've absorbed a ton of information over the years, so I'm wondering where the hell you're getting this one. Got some evidence/links? 

She's not "aligned" with PM Modi simply for meeting him and being diplomatic for god's sake. Obama did the same thing. But ya know.. he's of the establishment so he gets a free pass, and not every little thing is completely under the microscope and criticized like with Tulsi. And furthermore when it comes to Modi I can't help but feel there's a tinge of Hinduphobia here (ironically). Like, somehow I doubt a white Christian democrat doing the same with Modi would have been branded a "Modi supporter/adjacent/enabler" or whatever the shit label people pull out of their asses.

It's the same with Assad. Just because she doesn't support overthrowing a dictator and going in and installing our own like we've done time and time again, doesn't mean she enables or supports him in any way. She's repeatedly condemned him. What the hell is she supposed to do at this point, fly to Syria and throw goddamn eggs at his house?

Many Authoritarian leftists seem to have lost the plot when it comes to foreign policy, and that diplomacy and anti-intervention BY NO MEANS = "support." The same freaking way those liberals who were against the Iraq war (which most were, how times have changed..) were not "supporting Saddam Husein." Her argument with Assad is that going to war with him and/or overthrowing him will inevitably only lead to MORE chaos and instability, and thus more deaths. Again, look to Iraq and Afghanistan as an example. 

Those interested in our foreign policy here in the US operates and the corruption behind it should watch this doc. While it's not entirely related to this subject, it sheds some light on what Tulsi is talking about when she so often refers to "regime change wars" and why diplomacy should be emphasized over war or overthrowing these regimes. Shows how much of this military intervention is just part of a larger scheme of clandestine imperialism.

Tulsi has to pass those illogical purity tests and answer stupid questions because the media has shaped the narrative around her, it's as simple as that.

As much as we hate MSM and acknowledge their incompetence, we still fall into their traps that stun our critical thinking. The way many on the left hold Tulsi's feet to the fire and let others like Obama go unchallanaged is a perfect example of that, it's not a coincidence that Obama happens to be a media darling.



Biden's apparently trying to not debate Bernie 1 on 1. I swear... DNC can try to protect this man, and he can try to squirm and limit his appearances but does he think he can do the same when it's him vs Trump? Is this your champion? lol



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uran10 said:

Biden's apparently trying to not debate Bernie 1 on 1. I swear... DNC can try to protect this man, and he can try to squirm and limit his appearances but does he think he can do the same when it's him vs Trump? Is this your champion? lol

“We will participate in whatever debate CNN choses to stage: standing, sitting, at podiums, or in a town hall,” Biden’s deputy campaign manager Kate Bedingfield said.

Literally, from the article that was linked.