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Forums - Gaming Discussion - (Update) Rumor: PlayStation 5 will be using Navi 9 (more powerful than Navi 10), new update Jason Schreier said Sony aim more then 10,7 Teraflop

 

How accurate this rumored is compared to the reality

Naah 26 35.62%
 
Its 90% close 14 19.18%
 
it's 80% close 8 10.96%
 
it's 70% close 5 6.85%
 
it's 50% close 13 17.81%
 
it's 30% close 7 9.59%
 
Total:73
Trumpstyle said:
Lafiel said:

If they launch the PS5 for $499 they might have a smaller cache SSD (up to 256GB) along with a 2TB HDD, but I can't see SSD prices collapsing enough for them to go for SSD only

Duude 1TB flash storage is cheaper than 2TB laptop mechanical drive + 240GB flash storage. And why do they need 256GB flash storage? Between 64GB-128GB flash storage is enough, it can store the OS and the most important files for 1 game. So if Sony or Microsoft goes HHD + flash storage I assume it will be 1TB + 64-128GB of flash storage it makes the most sense to me.

But in the end I feel almost 100% certain next-gen will have 1TB of flash storage. It will probably be the cheapest and fastest solution for the entire next-gen. People need to think the entire generation and not just first or second year, flash storage will probably drop a lot in price for the next 5 years. About the other specs I'm still on 9TF navi gpu along with 8 core, 16 thread zen2 cpu(2,8 Ghz) and 12GB of VRAM maybe 16GB depending on price.

That would be awesome and I have to imagine it would help having less moving parts in there when it comes to cooling and durability



I am Iron Man

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SilenceDeadly said:
Little to no doubts, Anaconda will be behind Ps5 & won't be close.

Really?  But the Microsoft ceo is into gaming and they seem pretty obsesssed with power since the X.  Plus they have more money to burn at the front end of the gen



I am Iron Man

Robert_Downey_Jr. said:
SilenceDeadly said:
Little to no doubts, Anaconda will be behind Ps5 & won't be close.

Really?  But the Microsoft ceo is into gaming and they seem pretty obsesssed with power since the X.  Plus they have more money to burn at the front end of the gen

I highly doubt that Sony nor MS is willing to go into the whole to one up each other on the power of their consoles.  I believe MS learned their lesson and so did Sony.  Price matters big time with a new console.  Both MS and Sony will have a system that can be sold for around 400 bones give or take a few pennies.  Neither company is going to go over this sweet spot to much and thus that range will dictate the hardware within each.  I just do not see either company eating hundreds of dollars per console again as each company loves to be profitable.



HollyGamer said:

Yes GCN is similar to all across  AMD GPU from Pitcairn until Navi but They have a major improvement ( Pitcairn to Polaris ) the improvement is smaller chip node, faster clock speed

Not as major as you would think. It's evolutionary not revolutionary improvements.
Even then, on the odd occasion there was actually regression.

For example... Gamer Nexus did a comparison of Fiji and Vega's IPC. Vega didn't look all that pretty...
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2977-vega-fe-vs-fury-x-at-same-clocks-ipc

HollyGamer said:

The same with Nvidia with all of their CUDA cores, like Maxwell and Pascal are actually the same but it just has smaller node from 24  nm to 16 nm

Architecturally Maxwell and Pascal are brothers, Pascal did introduce a few improvements, namely an update to Delta Colour Compression which meant a good reworking of the ROPS.
However, Pascals main focus was on reducing leakage and noise so as to drive up clockrates instead, nVidia was pretty successful on that front.

Also 24nm wasn't a thing.
It was 28nm and 16nm respectively.
https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/74849-nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-28nm-maxwell/
https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/103213-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-16nm-pascal/

HollyGamer said:

So i bet PS5 with Navi will have the same thing, even if you said " it's the same GCN ", with smaller chip Sony just can add more shaders unit or CU , even if you said it's limited to 64 CU , they can increase the clock speed , with more efficiency to reach 12 ,5 teraflop (vega 64 target)

Increasing the clockrates has a better overall effect than just blowing out the CU count... Because like I alluded to prior, Graphics Core Next is limited to 64 ROPS (Although independent of the DRAM), 256 TMU's and 4x geometry units... So every-time you increase clockrates, you increase the performance of those components.

There is a reason why Vega 7 took the approach it did, it cut down on the CU count, but dramatically increased clockrates over Vega 64, it's a balancing act.
But for Graphics Core Next to scale beyond 64 CU's, there needs to be a significant reworking of the architecture to fix it's inherent bottlenecks that holds back gaming performance.

HollyGamer said:

Also yes everything is  possible in the realm of logic, reality  and "HUMAN KNOWLEDGE  LIMITATION " hell nobody can guess what i am wearing now, neither you nor you and know what will Navi performance be, yes many expert out there who said Navi is "just another GCN, and then 7nm  will not bring anything , AMD are not at the current situation to change."  Yes they speak based on history data of bad thing from AMD result on GPU performance , they forgot AMD has done decent maybe not as good as Nvidia.

Navi will perform better than Polaris, but less than Vega. That's the reality of the situation.

Navi is Polaris's replacement, not a high-end GPU.

It's the same rubbish that happened prior to Polaris's release, everyone was hyping it, but at the end of the day... It was a GPU that was destined for the mainstream markets, just like Navi, so don't expect high-end performance.

And I know this for a FACT because of AMD's statements... And when it comes to hardware, I tend to be right more often than not.

HollyGamer said:

Also the benchmark you are using is an old game crysis 3 , also some games is just play better on AMD GPU also you forgot on reality benchmark is bond to be different form one PC to another especially when it's just small few number . So yes GTX 970 -980 are equal with RX 480.

Doesn't matter? It's not meant to test performance, it's meant to test load power consumption.
You only need the one gaming test, which is all that Anandtech provided, unless you are suggesting that you have a better knowledge-base than even Anandtech on this topic?

https://www.anandtech.com/show/10446/the-amd-radeon-rx-480-preview/6

I mean, you could cling to the power-virus "furmark" if you wish, but AMD's GPU's throttle in that.

If we take a look at Polaris Version 2. Aka. The Radeon RX 580. Power consumption is higher yet again, higher than a GTX 1070 which out-performs it.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11278/amd-radeon-rx-580-rx-570-review/16

HollyGamer said:

Flops is not everything, agree on that is like you mentioned that a millions times, just look at how Vega 64 12,6 teraflops compared to GTX 1080 which just 9 teraflops but beat Vega 64, but at current states  you mentioned before what we have for now is just GCN architecture , that's how we measured AMD performance "until" we have a new 7+ nm architecture. 

What?

HollyGamer said:
vivster said:

Consoles are about what's feasible and not what's possible. 14TFLOPS is not feasible if you actually want people to buy it.

New rumor just came, PS5 will be using Navi 9 or a cut down Navi 9. Navi 9 itself will be more powerful than navi 10 . navi 10 rumor to be as powerful as RTX 2070 

https://youtu.be/-AAB0Pv7_A8

 

A youtube video based on a youtube video rumor.
Grains of salt shall be had on this day.

 The leaks I have seen pegs Navi at Vega 56 levels. RTX 2070 beats Vega 64... So...
https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3072523/amd-navi-benchmarks-leak



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:

Not as major as you would think. It's evolutionary not revolutionary improvements.
Even then, on the odd occasion there was actually regression.

For example... Gamer Nexus did a comparison of Fiji and Vega's IPC. Vega didn't look all that pretty...
https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2977-vega-fe-vs-fury-x-at-same-clocks-ipc

Architecturally Maxwell and Pascal are brothers, Pascal did introduce a few improvements, namely an update to Delta Colour Compression which meant a good reworking of the ROPS.
However, Pascals main focus was on reducing leakage and noise so as to drive up clockrates instead, nVidia was pretty successful on that front.

Also 24nm wasn't a thing.
It was 28nm and 16nm respectively.
https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/74849-nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-28nm-maxwell/
https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphics/103213-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-16nm-pascal/

Increasing the clockrates has a better overall effect than just blowing out the CU count... Because like I alluded to prior, Graphics Core Next is limited to 64 ROPS (Although independent of the DRAM), 256 TMU's and 4x geometry units... So every-time you increase clockrates, you increase the performance of those components.

There is a reason why Vega 7 took the approach it did, it cut down on the CU count, but dramatically increased clockrates over Vega 64, it's a balancing act.
But for Graphics Core Next to scale beyond 64 CU's, there needs to be a significant reworking of the architecture to fix it's inherent bottlenecks that holds back gaming performance.

Navi will perform better than Polaris, but less than Vega. That's the reality of the situation.

Navi is Polaris's replacement, not a high-end GPU.

It's the same rubbish that happened prior to Polaris's release, everyone was hyping it, but at the end of the day... It was a GPU that was destined for the mainstream markets, just like Navi, so don't expect high-end performance.

And I know this for a FACT because of AMD's statements... And when it comes to hardware, I tend to be right more often than not.

Doesn't matter? It's not meant to test performance, it's meant to test load power consumption.
You only need the one gaming test, which is all that Anandtech provided, unless you are suggesting that you have a better knowledge-base than even Anandtech on this topic?

https://www.anandtech.com/show/10446/the-amd-radeon-rx-480-preview/6

I mean, you could cling to the power-virus "furmark" if you wish, but AMD's GPU's throttle in that.

If we take a look at Polaris Version 2. Aka. The Radeon RX 580. Power consumption is higher yet again, higher than a GTX 1070 which out-performs it.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11278/amd-radeon-rx-580-rx-570-review/16


What?

A youtube video based on a youtube video rumor.
Grains of salt shall be had on this day.

 The leaks I have seen pegs Navi at Vega 56 levels. RTX 2070 beats Vega 64... So...
https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3072523/amd-navi-benchmarks-leak

 A revolutionary or not it's still a big jump in improvement even if it's just because of small die size.

Also why the hell you comparing Vega with Fiji, you should compare it to Polaris instead Vega? 

Pascal and Maxwel on architectural level is the same the same with all GCN across the AMD GPU after Fiji , the are improving on the driver level , you just mentioned by yourself.

And why the hell are u using power load consumption as benchmark? and on top of that comparing it to GTX 1070 . Fiji to Polaris as an improvement can only be compared to GTX 970 or 980 and it need  games benchmark not power consumption benchmark. The point of the benchmark is to prove that GTX 970 and GTX 980 as high end GPU can be performed with mainstream GPU like Polaris. 

Navi will perform better or not we still don't know yet, it's only rumor, this just pure speculation based on the latest rumor and on top of that trusted source across the Internet, anyone can agree or not .

Also We don't know if AMD can increase their ROp's or their shader processor , they probably cannot break 64 CU limit but they can increase shader processor.  And yes it's rumor but a rumor or not i have a source , nobody can debunked either right or wrong, because that what we have.

You just assuming AMD is already in the dead end , but we don't know yet, many expert like Adore TV out there who also expert in this, has a lot insider and got a lot of info and newsleak ,think that AMD making a big improvement of GCN for Navi.

Your logic is "AMD is performing bad now, so in the future they will perform bad as well " that's how you think on this matter.  

So yes It's still in a realm of possibility. Also we also got a new benchmark that suspected as Navi GPU and on top of that it's an  igpu or APU https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-gpu-radeon-rx-benchmarks-graphics-performance-rumors/. You need to remember it was mentioned as  low end Navi GPU (navi 12 or 15 probably) , and PS5 are rumored to be using Navi 9 ( a cut down version) .

Also your standar of mainstream GPU for near future is very pessimistic , all High end GPU from 2016 and 2017 will just be a mainstream GPU on 2020 , it's moore law. Even if you say it's more then that AMD is not that stupid. 

Last edited by HollyGamer - on 13 March 2019

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HollyGamer said:

 A revolutionary or not it's still a big jump in improvement even if it's just because of small die size.

Yeah. You can't really say that when Navi isn't even on the market yet.

HollyGamer said:

Also why the hell you comparing Vega with Fiji, you should compare it to Polaris instead Vega?

Because Vega is Fiji's successor.
Polaris is Hawaii's successor.

HollyGamer said:

Pascal and Maxwel on architectural level is the same the same with all GCN across the AMD GPU after Fiji , the are improving on the driver level , you just mentioned by yourself.

I did agree you know.

HollyGamer said:

And why the hell are u using power load consumption as benchmark?

If you have to ask... Then you should probably go back through the quote tree. You mentioned power consumption.

HollyGamer said:

Navi will perform better or not we still don't know yet, it's only rumor, this just pure speculation based on the latest rumor and on top of that trusted source across the Internet, anyone can agree or not .

Navi will perform better than Polaris. That's a given.
Navi will perform worst than Vega. That's a given.

What is up for debate is exactly where it will fall.

HollyGamer said:

Also We don't know if AMD can increase their ROp's or their shader processor , they probably cannot break 64 CU limit but they can increase shader processor.  And yes it's rumor but a rumor or not i have a source , nobody can debunked either right or wrong, because that what we have.

Which is what myself an many others have been saying all along.

HollyGamer said:

You just assuming AMD is already in the dead end , but we don't know yet, many expert like Adore TV out there who also expert in this and has a lot insider got a lot of info and newsleak , think it's possible.

AMD is not in a good spot regarding it's GPU's. - This is coming from someone who primarily buys AMD GPU's for their compute capabilities.

HollyGamer said:

Your logic is "AMD is performing bad now, so in the future they will perform bad as well " that's how you think on this matter. 

Correct. Because AMD has been performing bad for years... Because they are still stuck with an old, outdated graphics architecture and Navi isn't a deviation from that.
Will Navi offer an increase in performance? Sure. Will Navi offer an increase in efficiency? Sure. But it's not going to be high-end either way, it's going to be mainstream/mid-range just like Polaris.

HollyGamer said:

So yes It's still in a realm of possibility. Also we also got a new benchmark that suspected as Navi GPU and on top of that it's an  igpu or APU https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-gpu-radeon-rx-benchmarks-graphics-performance-rumors/. You need to remember it was mentioned as  low end Navi GPU (navi 12 or 15 probably) , and PS5 are rumored to be using Navi 9 ( a cut down version) .

CompuBench tends to report CU counts incorrectly.
If you read the link, you will see that in compute it was sitting around the level of an RX 580. - Which is a terrible GPU.
So a higher-end Navi GPU will likely fall around Vega 56, tops. - It's not high-end.






--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:

Yeah. You can't really say that when Navi isn't even on the market yet.

Because Vega is Fiji's successor.
Polaris is Hawaii's successor.

 

If you have to ask... Then you should probably go back through the quote tree. You mentioned power consumption.


Navi will perform better than Polaris. That's a given.
Navi will perform worst than Vega. That's a given.

What is up for debate is exactly where it will fall.


Which is what myself an many others have been saying all along.


AMD is not in a good spot regarding it's GPU's. - This is coming from someone who primarily buys AMD GPU's for their compute capabilities.


Correct. Because AMD has been performing bad for years... Because they are still stuck with an old, outdated graphics architecture and Navi isn't a deviation from that.
Will Navi offer an increase in performance? Sure. Will Navi offer an increase in efficiency? Sure. But it's not going to be high-end either way, it's going to be mainstream/mid-range just like Polaris.


CompuBench tends to report CU counts incorrectly.
If you read the link, you will see that in compute it was sitting around the level of an RX 580. - Which is a terrible GPU.
So a higher-end Navi GPU will likely fall around Vega 56, tops. - It's not high-end.




The same with u, it's just "rumor ", why you take this seriously.

Oke Vega is Fiji Successor and Polaris is hawaii successor , but Polaris has the same  performance with Fiji or more. That's the point of improvement , the same thing will happen with Navi that will have performance of vega 64 or even more. 

I never asked power consumption as benchmark, The point of the benchmark is to prove that GTX 970 and GTX 980 as high end GPU can be performed with mainstream GPU like Polaris in 2016. 

If you agree if they can increase the shader processor why you are not agree with the rumored performance  number, the new rumor that just came pointed out that if PS5 navi is using Navi 9 that has 4672 sp , which more than Radeon VII , it's possible to gain that level of performance. 

The Compubench shows that it has terrible compute unit but you need to remember Navi intended for gaming focus ( yeah vega and Polaris also intended for gaming but it not helping them by focusing more on compute power ) So if the igpu Navi shows that performance level of shading close to Vega 56, than it's a beast. Imagine a dedicated PC Navi can do (navi 10 or even 9) 



24gb of RAM seems unrealistic to me, as does much of the other stuff. The only way I could see this being accurate is if Sony is going to do a two-SKU thing and these are the specs for the premium unit.



BraLoD said:
VAMatt said:
24gb of RAM seems unrealistic to me, as does much of the other stuff. The only way I could see this being accurate is if Sony is going to do a two-SKU thing and these are the specs for the premium unit.

There will be only one unit, and it will be premium.

Man, I hope not.  That's asking for failure.  Hardware has to launch at $399 or less, lest it be crushed by whoever sells for less.  In this case, we (essentially) know that MS will have a lower priced SKU. So, a single SKU from Sony cannot be a premium unit, unless it comes without a premium price tag.  



performance equal to a rtx2080.

Is sony planning to sell the PS5 at a lost just like the PS3? Even at launch the PS3 was expensive to build and they still sold it for a loss for $599.

Last edited by deskpro2k3 - on 13 March 2019

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