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Forums - Politics - IGN takes issue with white male lead in Days Gone.

DonFerrari on 08 March 2019
Jumpin said:
DonFerrari said:

Nope he wasn't presented an uninspired premise, he assumed it.

So you think they're lying about their own opinion? Can you prove that?

His very paragraphs proves it, as he says few words later that ...

While I’ll admit that I initially rolled my eyes at yet another Gruff White Male Protagonist™ in a grim world - especially one with such a Gruff White Male Protagonist™-ey name as Deacon St. John - I ended up getting far more invested than I’d initially expected. I shouldn’t be surprised, I suppose - this is a first-party Sony title, and Bend is no stranger to writing around well-developed characters and games with a strong narrative focus, either

Basically he assumed something bad because he is a gruff white male protagonist, with a name that aggravates it. Then he confess the chars is well developed and have a strong narrative.

 

It would be very different situation if he had something like "the char have no development besides being a gruff white male" and criticizing the lack of development. And even in this case being a white male is inconsequential as that have nothing to do with development of char. He would basically be complaining that the char have a single trait that is being gruff.



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Metroid33slayer on 08 March 2019
Kerotan said:
Jumpin said:

You think it's silly to not be thrilled about an uninspired concept?

And you think this is a political issue?

Nope. I think it's silly for his colour to be part of it. I think it's fine if he said yet another biker gang character but a biker gang character can be any colour. I don't think it should be any more interesting just because the biker gang leader wasn't white. 

I also don't think this is a political issue. As I said earlier CGI moved this into the politics discussion. 

Metroid33slayer said:
Replace the word white with any other race and male with female and this bigot gets fired and never works in the industry again. It's a sickening double standard.

Not saying you're wrong but would there actually be a big racial outcry in the scenario you painted? 

The SJW lynch mob would harass the guys employer untill he gets fired if he dared demean a character for having dark skin or for being a woman, remember these lunatics think super mario and rudolph the red nosed reindeer are offensive.



Jumpin on 08 March 2019
Kerotan said:
Jumpin said:

Good for you, you don't judge people for skin colour in real life, I doubt IGN does either.

But the colour blind act is not very convincing. You introduced yourself as a white guy in your initial post. That's the reason you gave for wanting to police their language.

I don't judge in real life or in digital media. 

If they said yet another black gang leader I'd also have a problem with it. My answer would be so what if he's black. He could just as easily be white and it shouldn't effect your enjoyment of the game. 

I heard you the first time, you want to represent yourself as a politically correct angel out on a social justice crusade to police IGN's language.

Maybe you're PC enough to call out IGN for saying they were bored of the huge excess of black gang leader protagonists like we have with gruff white male protagonists. Who knows?

But that's not the case here. You called out that the reason for your issue was because you were a white male in your very first post. So you can't really argue that you're not making this all about you.

Injecting identity politics and making it all about you; I'm guessing you're a millennial? =)



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin on 08 March 2019
DonFerrari said:
Jumpin said:

So you think they're lying about their own opinion? Can you prove that?

His very paragraphs proves it, as he says few words later that ...

While I’ll admit that I initially rolled my eyes at yet another Gruff White Male Protagonist™ in a grim world - especially one with such a Gruff White Male Protagonist™-ey name as Deacon St. John - I ended up getting far more invested than I’d initially expected. I shouldn’t be surprised, I suppose - this is a first-party Sony title, and Bend is no stranger to writing around well-developed characters and games with a strong narrative focus, either

Basically he assumed something bad because he is a gruff white male protagonist, with a name that aggravates it. Then he confess the chars is well developed and have a strong narrative.

 

It would be very different situation if he had something like "the char have no development besides being a gruff white male" and criticizing the lack of development. And even in this case being a white male is inconsequential as that have nothing to do with development of char. He would basically be complaining that the char have a single trait that is being gruff.

What they're saying is a tired protagonist profile and setting, and then played the game and found there was more to be invested in.

Thanks for doing the leg work in proving your initial post wrong.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Mospeada21CA on 08 March 2019

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Donkey Kong, 'Hold my banana-beer.'

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ArchangelMadzz on 08 March 2019
Metroid33slayer said:
Replace the word white with any other race and male with female and this bigot gets fired and never works in the industry again. It's a sickening double standard.

Nope, sorry you're wrong. 

I said this a few pages back but people have always done this. I know this much just from the Black side as I am a black man. But Black people have been complaining about generic cliche black characters for many many years. 



There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

Kerotan on 08 March 2019
Jumpin said:
Kerotan said:

I don't judge in real life or in digital media. 

If they said yet another black gang leader I'd also have a problem with it. My answer would be so what if he's black. He could just as easily be white and it shouldn't effect your enjoyment of the game. 

I heard you the first time, you want to represent yourself as a politically correct angel out on a social justice crusade to police IGN's language.

Maybe you're PC enough to call out IGN for saying they were bored of the huge excess of black gang leader protagonists like we have with gruff white male protagonists. Who knows?

But that's not the case here. You called out that the reason for your issue was because you were a white male in your very first post. So you can't really argue that you're not making this all about you.

Injecting identity politics and making it all about you; I'm guessing you're a millennial? =)

Jesus so many personal shots at me. I've not taken any at you. 

 

To answer your first paragraph this is probably the first such thread I've made on here and I've over 600 threads I think. I barely ever get involved in politics discussion. So I don't know when I became a politically correct angel on a crusade. It's literally just one thread where I've calmly and respectfully offered my opinion. 

 

Your last paragraph is also wrong. Trying to take a jab at me calling me a millennial but I was in fact born quite a few years earlier.

 

Why can't you debate this issue respectfully? 



Mr Puggsly on 08 March 2019
ArchangelMadzz said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I think what you're missing or excusing is "white" was part of his criticism.

For example, if I call a woman a "fat ugly cunt," I am mocking her weight, appearance and perhaps behavior. All the words were part of my criticism.

It was because that's part of the trope attached to that type of character. 

It's not criticising the actual skin colour itself how is that so hard to see? If I see an angry black woman character and think oh what an overused trope. I'm criticising the character, I'm not criticising the skin colour that's a ridiculous leap of logic. You gotta do some serious mental gymnastics to hold your viewpoint. 

Angry black woman is an overused trope and so is being white?

Maybe you mean a gruff person in a post apocalyptic zombie infested world is over used? I guess you'd like to see more jovial people in that setting? Preferably not white of course.

Maybe jovial black non-binary character in a zombie survival thriller!



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Mr Puggsly on 08 March 2019
Nate4Drake said:
I'm happy the main character is a white man; for the sequel I want a black female, and very very sexy.

Maybe the only solution is every game is gonna need a character creator and multiple voice actors that will do different dialogue for the lead character.

We can't be all inclusive when the game designers just focus on the story they want to tell.



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Mr Puggsly on 09 March 2019
SpokenTruth said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Angry black woman is an overused trope and so is being white?

Maybe you mean a gruff person in a post apocalyptic zombie infested world is over used? I guess you'd like to see more jovial people in that setting? Preferably not white of course.

Maybe jovial black non-binary character in a zombie survival thriller!

Being white isn't a trope.  Crikey man.  Really?  And of course you take the opposite direction of the gruff white male protagonist approach to suggest that's what he wants.

Why not an everyday man in a post apocalyptic zombie infested world?  Why not a nerdy, white male protagonist?  Doesn't have to be a woman, non-binary, jovial or whatever opposite you want to add in.  Just why not something aside from basically a carbon copy of the same tired old cliche characters?  Why is that too much to ask for?  Why is something just a little bit different asking too much?

I think what you're trying to say is "white" + "gruff" = "bad"." However, "non-white" + "gruff" = "great." Seems like the original point stands, his whiteness is upsetting people. Because simply changing that would make this character fresh.

An every day man in a post apocalyptic world? Maybe that works when the infestation of zombies starts, like the first season of Telltale's The Walking Dead. But was that character interesting because he was black? Not really, but he had a cool gruff black guy voice.



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