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Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware 15 December 2018

Shiken said:
DonFerrari said:

So if you are claiming the only thing the dock do is activate a trigger then it is basically not necessary as that call could be made without it (even without power outlet).

So again all you are showing is that Switch is indeed a handheld that you can connect to TV and play some ports of the consoles other companies get.

 

No you have it twisted.  There are two reasons why the Switch at docked power would be ineffective as a handheld.  One is heat.  The fan ramps up notably higher and the console gets considerably warmer.  This leaves it with moving parts and leaves it more fragile in a portable environment.

 

The other is the battery life.  The extra juice required would sap it dry in no time.

 

It seems that there is no correct answer for you, and you will only say what you think will sound better for what you want to happen.  It is BECAUSE the dock does so little that the Switch itself is a hybrid by design, and not just a portable with an extra attachment.  It is designed to operate as both at a hardware and software level.  If you hack it to be one way or another, you are altering the entire form factor of the product that is being sold.

Being less efficient doesn't make it not working.

And it hooked to a power outlet but holding in the hand is still handheld not table console.

Everything Switch do, can be done in your hand. My notebook doesn't another thing because it is 100% of the time on the power outlet.

You could very well have Switch on a power outlet and HDMI cable to TV without changing anything else. making it a dock was a choice but doesn't make it a table console.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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kirby007 said:
DonFerrari said:

I see, ok them. 2.8M seem to high imho. have you counted how much that represents for HW sold? like 30% of total HW was with SpiderMan bundle? And there were other bundles as well.

Yes those very valueble fortnite bundles are taken into account, thats why i took the increase in hardware in consideration combined with the max weekly sales for spiderman each week since launch and the batman series of ps4+360 combined as a additional sales trend

I still find it to high, but on the lack of data to really confront I have no problem accepting that Spider-Man could have been quite large on attach ratio on bundles as mean for good sales of PS4 for the year and that would make it even more impressive. TO accelerate consoles sales so late in its life is an achievement in itself.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
kirby007 said:

Yes those very valueble fortnite bundles are taken into account, thats why i took the increase in hardware in consideration combined with the max weekly sales for spiderman each week since launch and the batman series of ps4+360 combined as a additional sales trend

I still find it to high, but on the lack of data to really confront I have no problem accepting that Spider-Man could have been quite large on attach ratio on bundles as mean for good sales of PS4 for the year and that would make it even more impressive. TO accelerate consoles sales so late in its life is an achievement in itself.

Agreed it is that i dont use twotter otherwise it would be an interesting question for anyone from sony or insider on the bundle vs total sales attachrate.

But im pretty confident on being reasonably close  to put it into perspective lets put a 5%Margin of error from the total spiderman sales on it 450k up or down would mean 2.35m or 3.25m 



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

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curl-6 said:

Holy smokes, Switch > PS4 + Xbone hardware combined.

Nintendo may have pissed away Jan-Oct this year but their holiday performance is insane.

Isn't that pretty normal? Or was that the XB1?



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

DonFerrari said:
Shiken said:

No you have it twisted.  There are two reasons why the Switch at docked power would be ineffective as a handheld.  One is heat.  The fan ramps up notably higher and the console gets considerably warmer.  This leaves it with moving parts and leaves it more fragile in a portable environment.

 

The other is the battery life.  The extra juice required would sap it dry in no time.

 

It seems that there is no correct answer for you, and you will only say what you think will sound better for what you want to happen.  It is BECAUSE the dock does so little that the Switch itself is a hybrid by design, and not just a portable with an extra attachment.  It is designed to operate as both at a hardware and software level.  If you hack it to be one way or another, you are altering the entire form factor of the product that is being sold.

Being less efficient doesn't make it not working.

And it hooked to a power outlet but holding in the hand is still handheld not table console.

 

With the AC adapter plugged in, it still runs in handheld mode as there is no signal telling it to output docked power.  It is designed very specifically to only go into docked mode when it is being used as a console.

Everything Switch do, can be done in your hand. My notebook doesn't another thing because it is 100% of the time on the power outlet.

 

Show me a video of an unhacked/unaltered Switch in handheld mode outputting docked performance and your point will be proven valid.  The fact is you cannot because it was designed to operate one way or the other making it a home console/handheld hybrid  and therefore both.

You could very well have Switch on a power outlet and HDMI cable to TV without changing anything else. making it a dock was a choice but doesn't make it a table console.

 

Without the signal from the dock, it will not output docked power, regardless of if you are plugged into the wall or not because it is still being used as a handheld at that point in time.  Without physically altering the Switch itself, it is designed to be one way or the other.  It is not that hard to understand.

 

And for the record, you cannot have the Switch plugged into a power outlet and a TV at the same time in portable mode because there is only one port.  You would need a dock like device to splice the two functions together and activate console mode and at that point, it is being used as a console.  And do not even suggest tryjng to rig something up, because the Switch is not designed to work outside of its parameters and you could easily damage the device by trying to force it.



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Lots of adults love Nintendo, but there is no question that their focus is more oriented for kids and teenagers than the market the other consoles go after.  That doesn´t mean that its only for kids, but if I had to buy a present for my little kids for Christmas , it would be a switch, I guess playing Mario or Zelda is better for kids than playing The last of US or God of war right? And that translates into more sales if the machine is succesfull like the switch is. Also the portability helps, many parents would go and tell them, here you have it , go play to your room. 



kirby007 said:
DonFerrari said:

I still find it to high, but on the lack of data to really confront I have no problem accepting that Spider-Man could have been quite large on attach ratio on bundles as mean for good sales of PS4 for the year and that would make it even more impressive. TO accelerate consoles sales so late in its life is an achievement in itself.

Agreed it is that i dont use twotter otherwise it would be an interesting question for anyone from sony or insider on the bundle vs total sales attachrate.

But im pretty confident on being reasonably close  to put it into perspective lets put a 5%Margin of error from the total spiderman sales on it 450k up or down would mean 2.35m or 3.25m 

How much did Batman sale? I know you said Spidey would be tracking like Batman without the bundles. And I know Spidey is at 9 million as of Nov 25th so taking away that 2.35m would but it at a little under 7million with the whole of Dec to go. And was released Sept 7th. Did the Batman games really sell like that? I am asking because I can't remember.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

RolStoppable said:
zorg1000 said:
This handheld you can play on the TV vs console you can take on the go is and always has been such a stupid argument, it's a device designed to do both. Stop arguing over semantics.

But it always leads to funny arguments when people are determined to insist that Nintendo has left the home console market.

It´s not semantics. The power envelope and the graphics capabilities shows that its a mobile device. 



kirby007 said:
DonFerrari said:

I still find it to high, but on the lack of data to really confront I have no problem accepting that Spider-Man could have been quite large on attach ratio on bundles as mean for good sales of PS4 for the year and that would make it even more impressive. TO accelerate consoles sales so late in its life is an achievement in itself.

Agreed it is that i dont use twotter otherwise it would be an interesting question for anyone from sony or insider on the bundle vs total sales attachrate.

But im pretty confident on being reasonably close  to put it into perspective lets put a 5%Margin of error from the total spiderman sales on it 450k up or down would mean 2.35m or 3.25m 

I also don't go twitter.

Tolerance range always gives us more likehood of hitting the number. And considering the other was in 2 very competitive machines with good userbase and attach ratio it more than balance the bundles Spidey had (didn't batman got some bundle as well?).

Shiken said:
DonFerrari said:

Being less efficient doesn't make it not working.

And it hooked to a power outlet but holding in the hand is still handheld not table console.

With the AC adapter plugged in, it still runs in handheld mode as there is no signal telling it to output docked power.  It is designed very specifically to only go into docked mode when it is being used as a console.

I didn't say it works in table mode, I said it very much could, that was a choice of Nintendo to limit it.

Everything Switch do, can be done in your hand. My notebook doesn't another thing because it is 100% of the time on the power outlet.

Show me a video of an unhacked/unaltered Switch in handheld mode outputting docked performance and your point will be proven valid.  The fact is you cannot because it was designed to operate one way or the other making it a home console/handheld hybrid  and therefore both.

The fact that someone just changing the configuration to recognize that it is in docked shows the system is very much capable of doing it if not for Nintendo putting a restriction on it. Same way if someone hacked PS4 to run PS3 games it would also show it would show very much that PS4 can run PS3 games but don't because Sony was lazy or not interested (PS1 and PS2 certainly could and Sony didn't bother).

You could very well have Switch on a power outlet and HDMI cable to TV without changing anything else. making it a dock was a choice but doesn't make it a table console.

Without the signal from the dock, it will not output docked power, regardless of if you are plugged into the wall or not because it is still being used as a handheld at that point in time.  Without physically altering the Switch itself, it is designed to be one way or the other.  It is not that hard to understand.

And for the record, you cannot have the Switch plugged into a power outlet and a TV at the same time in portable mode because there is only one port.  You would need a dock like device to splice the two functions together and activate console mode and at that point, it is being used as a console.  And do not even suggest tryjng to rig something up, because the Switch is not designed to work outside of its parameters and you could easily damage the device by trying to force it.

Sw configuring it to recognize as docked isn't physically hampering with it. And if you run it at docked performance but either on battery or just outlet without the dock and on TV it pretty much shows it is a HH that you can hook to the tv, using a HDMI cable directly or a dock is the same in this.

 

CrazyGPU said:

Lots of adults love Nintendo, but there is no question that their focus is more oriented for kids and teenagers than the market the other consoles go after.  That doesn´t mean that its only for kids, but if I had to buy a present for my little kids for Christmas , it would be a switch, I guess playing Mario or Zelda is better for kids than playing The last of US or God of war right? And that translates into more sales if the machine is succesfull like the switch is. Also the portability helps, many parents would go and tell them, here you have it , go play to your room. 

I know I'm abnormal, but my son just turned 4 years old and for more than 6 months he have been playing GoW here and there (he calls it the game of father and son) and asks me to read the books of GoW for him =]. He finished the temple of light so far with very little help from me.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Shiken said:

No you have it twisted.  There are two reasons why the Switch at docked power would be ineffective as a handheld.  One is heat.  The fan ramps up notably higher and the console gets considerably warmer.  This leaves it with moving parts and leaves it more fragile in a portable environment.

 

The other is the battery life.  The extra juice required would sap it dry in no time.

 

It seems that there is no correct answer for you, and you will only say what you think will sound better for what you want to happen.  It is BECAUSE the dock does so little that the Switch itself is a hybrid by design, and not just a portable with an extra attachment.  It is designed to operate as both at a hardware and software level.  If you hack it to be one way or another, you are altering the entire form factor of the product that is being sold.

OK. So the dock doesnt have a fan or have like some sort of additional PSU.

So if there were a USB c cable that spilt into HDMI and power to allow the switch connect to a TV and also draw power from the wall at the same time will that work?

And does that mean that the PSP was a hybrid too or even better a home console? Because it had a TV out cable. 

And its not about hacking it... I believe before this gen is done nintendo will sell the NS without a dock and just cables instead.