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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Report- MS working on 2 next-gen Scarlett family consoles for release Holiday 2020, handheld gaming peripherals with Razer

ironmanDX on 19 December 2018
thismeintiel said:
VAMatt said:

That is essentially what I just said.  You just switched the companies around.

Your point was about entry level price, not perceived value for said price.  You said just because it was cheaper than the PS5 it could drive sales.  My point is that you could have a SKU that was $299-$349, but was basically a slightly better XBOX (which itself would be ~$299 by then), but still have barely anyone buy it. Especially if for $50-$100 more you could have a much more powerful PS5. 

Can't we argue that exact point though for the Xbox X2? $100 more but moar powah?

 

If the price difference between the lower xbox and PS5 corresponding with power, why wouldn't that same leap apply to the X2? It might not be only slightly better.



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DonFerrari on 19 December 2018
ironmanDX said:
thismeintiel said:

Your point was about entry level price, not perceived value for said price.  You said just because it was cheaper than the PS5 it could drive sales.  My point is that you could have a SKU that was $299-$349, but was basically a slightly better XBOX (which itself would be ~$299 by then), but still have barely anyone buy it. Especially if for $50-$100 more you could have a much more powerful PS5. 

Can't we argue that exact point though for the Xbox X2? $100 more but moar powah?

 

If the price difference between the lower xbox and PS5 corresponding with power, why wouldn't that same leap apply to the X2? It might not be only slightly better.

As explained on a very near post. Sony will have higher sales projection and buying higher batch, so they may have lower cost (same on doing better HW engineering and achieving lower cost solution for similar spec).

And the difference is that MS having 2 consoles one will already compete with the other. We already seem when company have 2 HW that will play the same game which sells more (Arcade X360 without HDD sold more than elite, X1 sold probably 2-4x better than X1X, PS4 sold 3x more than PS4Pro). Does that answer your question?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

LudicrousSpeed on 19 December 2018
Maat said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

How? They’re in the same generation of consoles. It’s not as if the Scorpio is powerful enough to run dramatically more advanced games than the Xbone. Just the same games, only run them better, and looking much better.

Plus third parties are just going to develop with the PS4 as the base because it is the most popular console. Its not as if we’d be seeing “next gen” games on the Scorpio if the Xbone didn’t exist. 

As Microsoft and the third-party have to make the games run on both consoles, they simply can't ignore the fact that the game should be at least playable on the less powerful console. And that, at least for me, means a hold back, because XoneX could be receiving pretty good graphically detailed exclusives, just like God of War or Uncharted 4, running 1080p to say the least.

Forza Horizon 4 looks just as impressive graphically if not more so being an open world game and you can choose to have a much higher resolution than 1080p or 60 frames per second at 1080p on Scorpio. I choose the frame rate and it still looks insanely good.

At the end of the day you're talking about delivering what are at their core, still "eighth generation" games, but just looking better and playing better. That's exactly what the Scorpio already does. I mean.. is the PS4 Pro held back by the PS4? Not really, because it was never meant to offer games not playable on PS4. Also, Microsoft puts their games on PC, so even if you removed the base Xbone, there would still be a low baseline they'd have to hit and make the games scale up from there.



DonFerrari on 19 December 2018
LudicrousSpeed said:
Maat said:

As Microsoft and the third-party have to make the games run on both consoles, they simply can't ignore the fact that the game should be at least playable on the less powerful console. And that, at least for me, means a hold back, because XoneX could be receiving pretty good graphically detailed exclusives, just like God of War or Uncharted 4, running 1080p to say the least.

Forza Horizon 4 looks just as impressive graphically if not more so being an open world game and you can choose to have a much higher resolution than 1080p or 60 frames per second at 1080p on Scorpio. I choose the frame rate and it still looks insanely good.

At the end of the day you're talking about delivering what are at their core, still "eighth generation" games, but just looking better and playing better. That's exactly what the Scorpio already does. I mean.. is the PS4 Pro held back by the PS4? Not really, because it was never meant to offer games not playable on PS4. Also, Microsoft puts their games on PC, so even if you removed the base Xbone, there would still be a low baseline they'd have to hit and make the games scale up from there.

Plus the processing differences between X1, PS4, PS4Pro, X1X in order of power isn't that high that they are a generational jump that would really hold down the technology.

Sure X1X could have games that X1 couldn't, but as you said that wasn't ever the proposition, and from my POV I rather have PS4Pro games looking prettier than PS4 than playing games PS4 couldn't play.

The holding down will all depend on the devs themselves making the right calls.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Nate4Drake on 19 December 2018
DonFerrari said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Forza Horizon 4 looks just as impressive graphically if not more so being an open world game and you can choose to have a much higher resolution than 1080p or 60 frames per second at 1080p on Scorpio. I choose the frame rate and it still looks insanely good.

At the end of the day you're talking about delivering what are at their core, still "eighth generation" games, but just looking better and playing better. That's exactly what the Scorpio already does. I mean.. is the PS4 Pro held back by the PS4? Not really, because it was never meant to offer games not playable on PS4. Also, Microsoft puts their games on PC, so even if you removed the base Xbone, there would still be a low baseline they'd have to hit and make the games scale up from there.

Plus the processing differences between X1, PS4, PS4Pro, X1X in order of power isn't that high that they are a generational jump that would really hold down the technology.

Sure X1X could have games that X1 couldn't, but as you said that wasn't ever the proposition, and from my POV I rather have PS4Pro games looking prettier than PS4 than playing games PS4 couldn't play.

The holding down will all depend on the devs themselves making the right calls.

Yep, I agree with you.

 With all the scalability that Devs can apply to software, games on the more powerful hardware will never be hold back because of the less powerfull hardware and that fact games have to run on it as well, unless the difference is insane, like 5X the power in both CPU/GPU and total memory bandwidth.   So, it depends from Devs, and if they want and put effort, all versions will be spectacular on the respective SKU.

Can't wait for the official announcement of PS5 and "Anaconda" !!!



”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

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DonFerrari on 19 December 2018
Nate4Drake said:
DonFerrari said:

Plus the processing differences between X1, PS4, PS4Pro, X1X in order of power isn't that high that they are a generational jump that would really hold down the technology.

Sure X1X could have games that X1 couldn't, but as you said that wasn't ever the proposition, and from my POV I rather have PS4Pro games looking prettier than PS4 than playing games PS4 couldn't play.

The holding down will all depend on the devs themselves making the right calls.

Yep, I agree with you.

 With all the scalability that Devs can apply to software, games on the more powerful hardware will never be hold back because of the less powerfull hardware and that fact games have to run on it as well, unless the difference is insane, like 5X the power in both CPU/GPU and total memory bandwidth.   So, it depends from Devs, and if they want and put effort, all versions will be spectacular on the respective SKU.

Can't wait for the official announcement of PS5 and "Anaconda" !!!

Yep, even more if all the HW is using same/similar tech and gen with just the processing power being different. If only performance is different it will fall down to same game with different res/fps or some whistles and bells being applied or not.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Nate4Drake on 19 December 2018
DonFerrari said:
Nate4Drake said:

Yep, I agree with you.

 With all the scalability that Devs can apply to software, games on the more powerful hardware will never be hold back because of the less powerfull hardware and that fact games have to run on it as well, unless the difference is insane, like 5X the power in both CPU/GPU and total memory bandwidth.   So, it depends from Devs, and if they want and put effort, all versions will be spectacular on the respective SKU.

Can't wait for the official announcement of PS5 and "Anaconda" !!!

Yep, even more if all the HW is using same/similar tech and gen with just the processing power being different. If only performance is different it will fall down to same game with different res/fps or some whistles and bells being applied or not.

Exactly.  All HW will use the same technology, "very similar chips", just more processing power...or less.  Scalability will do the right job for every SKU.



”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

DonFerrari on 19 December 2018
Nate4Drake said:
DonFerrari said:

Yep, even more if all the HW is using same/similar tech and gen with just the processing power being different. If only performance is different it will fall down to same game with different res/fps or some whistles and bells being applied or not.

Exactly.  All HW will use the same technology, "very similar chips", just more processing power...or less.  Scalability will do the right job for every SKU.

The ones that can't scale to have a good game on the basis and pristine and pretty on the most powerful would probably devs that wouldn't make the best game even if there were a single hw to dev.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

VAMatt on 19 December 2018
thismeintiel said:
VAMatt said:

That is essentially what I just said.  You just switched the companies around.

Your point was about entry level price, not perceived value for said price.  You said just because it was cheaper than the PS5 it could drive sales.  My point is that you could have a SKU that was $299-$349, but was basically a slightly better XBOX (which itself would be ~$299 by then), but still have barely anyone buy it. Especially if for $50-$100 more you could have a much more powerful PS5. 

Obviously, it would have to be lower price for a comprable system. Otherwise, I'd be arguing that the Xbox One (which, presumably, would be the lowest priced system at the start of next generation) would have a leg up on the competition. 

In other words, what I'm saying is that if the Xbox 2 and PlayStation 5 are similarly capable systems, but one of them is cheaper than the other, that system has a major factor in its favor.  There are of course other things, such as the software catalog, and expectations of future support, that drive purchasing decisions. But, price is one of the major factors, and one that we have seen gamers be very sensitive to, especially at the start of a new generation.



ironmanDX on 19 December 2018
DonFerrari said:
ironmanDX said:

Can't we argue that exact point though for the Xbox X2? $100 more but moar powah?

 

If the price difference between the lower xbox and PS5 corresponding with power, why wouldn't that same leap apply to the X2? It might not be only slightly better.

As explained on a very near post. Sony will have higher sales projection and buying higher batch, so they may have lower cost (same on doing better HW engineering and achieving lower cost solution for similar spec).

And the difference is that MS having 2 consoles one will already compete with the other. We already seem when company have 2 HW that will play the same game which sells more (Arcade X360 without HDD sold more than elite, X1 sold probably 2-4x better than X1X, PS4 sold 3x more than PS4Pro). Does that answer your question?

Not really. It just tells me that you believe that Sony engineering will be superior based on assumptions? The navi rumour? I'm not sure.

I doubt at launch, the batch differences will be that much. X1 and PS4 launch numbers are incredibly close. I expect that the same will happen next launch. They'll both sell out of their respective "batches" launch window. Even the X1 managed to sell out in most markets in spite of the massive backlash.

I feel like the question still stands. Both companies are spending big in R&D I'd imagine and I don't understand why a Sony dollar would translate into a better machine than a MS one. Of course this question is pretty much unanswerable at the moment though.