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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PUBG, Fortnite and More Reportedly Banned in China, with Some Developers Responding

 

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Total:29
VAMatt said:
Eagle367 said:

By going to the US, UK, France, Germany, Canada etc, I indirectly fund their militaries which have killed a lot of innocents in my country and the neighbours of my country. And my funds contribute in that in some way, shape or form. If I was looking at things this way, I by principle should not go to these countries and they include Saudi Arabia which funds terrorists as well. And for me it is morally more acceptable to go to China than to the US. But then what about my own country? We have to face it that if we start thinking that way, almost all countries are doing shitty things somewhere in the world. Just because you can't see it and create an image of innocence, like Canada, doesn't mean it doesn't exist

I agree with most of that.  But, because the evils done by different countries very, the ways to avoid putting your stamp on those evils also vary.  In the US, a tourist should not go on tours of military vessels, visit war memorials, try to avoid paying taxes to the federal government (which is easy for tourists), etc.  In China, one should not even enter their ridiculous surveillance state.  By doing so, you're consenting to it.  

That's highly inaccurate. By buying the US dollar, by eating at a mcdonald's in the US, by getting a phone service, by buying some groceries, I am paying the US government through taxes. You really can't escape taxes. By going to the US, am I not endorsing their military exploits by your logic? Am I not betraying the people who were killed by the US amry in my countries by that logic? I will visit a country for the people and the landscape, not to endorse any nation. China is a beautiful country and so is the US. India is a beautiful country and so is israel, iran etc. That's the only reason other than business and family reasons why I would want to go there. And as a tourist, I won't feel restricted in any of these nations in any meaningful ways unlike war zones or a country like North Korea where you are not allowed to roam freely. In China I can choose where to go and what to do and that's enough for me to consider visiting them. Governments, injustices and politics will never go away that does not mean we isolate ourselves to our own country. The humans in china are still humans and I will not restricted in my human interactions in China so your logic is very flawed. That sort of logic will only cement the country in the way they are instead of bringing any meaningfull change anywhere. That's why sanctioning iran increases the fundamentalism in that nation and Russia has basically stopped caring about sanctions as they are sanctioned so much. Only through interaction and dialogue does any change occur. Your method will not get anyone anywhere and will only fester hate, resentment and a feeling of us vs them in normal humans which the governments would actually prefer since it is easier for the US to control it's citizens if they hate muslims, hate Russians and hate the chinese. Similarly it would benefit the Chinese government if their citizens hate the US and the west. Propaganda is easy to sell with isolationism and hatred breeding



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Eagle367 said:
VAMatt said:

I agree with most of that.  But, because the evils done by different countries very, the ways to avoid putting your stamp on those evils also vary.  In the US, a tourist should not go on tours of military vessels, visit war memorials, try to avoid paying taxes to the federal government (which is easy for tourists), etc.  In China, one should not even enter their ridiculous surveillance state.  By doing so, you're consenting to it.  

That's highly inaccurate. By buying the US dollar, by eating at a mcdonald's in the US, by getting a phone service, by buying some groceries, I am paying the US government through taxes. You really can't escape taxes. By going to the US, am I not endorsing their military exploits by your logic? Am I not betraying the people who were killed by the US amry in my countries by that logic? I will visit a country for the people and the landscape, not to endorse any nation. China is a beautiful country and so is the US. India is a beautiful country and so is israel, iran etc. That's the only reason other than business and family reasons why I would want to go there. And as a tourist, I won't feel restricted in any of these nations in any meaningful ways unlike war zones or a country like North Korea where you are not allowed to roam freely. In China I can choose where to go and what to do and that's enough for me to consider visiting them. Governments, injustices and politics will never go away that does not mean we isolate ourselves to our own country. The humans in china are still humans and I will not restricted in my human interactions in China so your logic is very flawed. That sort of logic will only cement the country in the way they are instead of bringing any meaningfull change anywhere. That's why sanctioning iran increases the fundamentalism in that nation and Russia has basically stopped caring about sanctions as they are sanctioned so much. Only through interaction and dialogue does any change occur. Your method will not get anyone anywhere and will only fester hate, resentment and a feeling of us vs them in normal humans which the governments would actually prefer since it is easier for the US to control it's citizens if they hate muslims, hate Russians and hate the chinese. Similarly it would benefit the Chinese government if their citizens hate the US and the west. Propaganda is easy to sell with isolationism and hatred breeding

Disagreeing with me does not mean that my logic is flawed.

Also, your understanding of taxation in the United States appears to be flawed.  Nearly all of the taxes that a tourist would pay would be going to state and local governments, which are in no way linked to the federal government.  It's the feds that do the warring and imperialism.

In any case, you're obviously free to go wherever you want.  If you want to go to China, go right ahead.  I've never been to Asia, but I would like to go at some point. As it stands today, I don't think I would be able to visit China.  I'd probably stick to  more liberal countries like South Korea and Japan, where I wouldn't have to feel guilty about putting my stamp of approval on an oppressive regime.



Eagle367 said:

You clearly don't know anything about Pakistan's history. Nor do you seem to care to do your research. You can easily find online when Pakistan's growth in the 1969s was higher than all of it's neighbours and one of the highest in the region. Also how Pakistan helped China in the 1960s. And how Pakistan and US trained the mujahideen later becoming the Taliban to fight the Soviets. How US then stopped supporting Pakistan right after. How again US came to Pakistan after 9/11 and is now blaming Pakistan for it's own failures. Why would you even trust India or NATO in this. It's like asking the US about Russians. Indians hate Pakistan as a reality so of course they will be negative. And NATO was throughly embarrassed on Afghanistan and won't take the blame on themselves so they choose Pakistan, the easiest target. You have a problem with Usama bin Ladin in Pakistan near a complex? How the hell did some terrorists gain so much control as to attack the pentagon, world trade center and another flight all in one go. The US military, which is the best in the world, can show incompetence but pakistan can't? The very idea that LL your sources are western is what's wrong with your whole view point. Read what other nations who are not allowed with either the US or Pakistan in any meaningful way say about this. The west has a bias against Pakistan that much is obvious. Why shoul believe other narratives when I have my own experiences? Pakistan has suffered more than you can imagine from the tragedies and I, at least am not calling my government and army innocent in any capacity whatsoever. But I am not going to tolerate lies that portray that Pakistan is all evil and all the blame goes to Pakistan. The US has backstabbed Pakistan a couple of times and the very fact that you think Pakistan and the US only worked together once shows your ignorance. You have no idea and have done no research whatsoever. You only have a biased propaganda based view of the situation. 

@Bold Where's your sources for all of your claims ?  For a guy that claims that someone else doesn't do their research it's totally ironic that you don't list your sources ...

I did find Pakistan's growth rate and it's mediocre for the most part since China outdid them in 1969 with a 16% growth rate but Pakistan still has yet to see a highly sustained growth rate, however I guess rose tinted nationalist glasses can really skew reality, eh ? Also Pakistan has NEVER militarily intervened in any of wars China was involved in which is why the latter still treats the former as a stranger. Where was Pakistan when China needed them most during the Korean/Vietnamese/Indian War ? In fact, China is starting to see Pakistan as a nuisance when they don't dare rat out the rebels in Xinjiang so Pakistan probably doesn't value their relationship with China much at all. (the only common ground Pakistan shares with China is their distrust of India) The US takes no responsibility for who they've trained since that's like blaming the teacher for a students failure and the US is justified to be critical of Pakistan since they were both equals in a COOPERATIVE military mission in that instance but US is obviously the one who got shafted. It's not even just the NATO who wants answers as to why an extensive support network was established for an INTERNATIONAL WAR CRIMINAL such as Osama bin Laden, it goes for Afghanistan as well since their the 2nd biggest victims of terrorism! Not saying that the best military in the world can't show incompetence but that doesn't excuse Pakistan's performance but you've obviously shown to deflect from the issue at hand and considering western sources are documented and transparent while Pakistan still hasn't given out any solid or concise answers, western sources may as well be the only source since only their answer exists ... 

If you actually cared about the intellectual honesty of this discussion, you'd be open to the idea that Pakistan isn't as innocent as you seem to believe or other thoughts from the opposition but such is the gift of a western liberal democracy that I was privileged into this world with where a strong opposition exists to hold our governments accountable while that is not so in your case. You see, the beautiful thing about independent thought even with bias is that you have the ability to play devil's advocate and if the constituents of Pakistan had that ability they'd be able to properly hold their own government responsible as a functioning republic but here we are where your display of unfettered nationalism translates to your inability to hold Pakistan liable just like the many of it's citizens so here we are where an outsider like myself (who's NOT an American) is one of the few making a real attempt at being the opposition ... 

"The US has backstabbed Pakistan a couple of times and the very fact that you think Pakistan and the US only worked together once shows your ignorance. You have no idea and have done no research whatsoever. You only have a biased propaganda based view of the situation"

Where exactly are your sources for those claims and it's you who needs to start backing up your crap ... (the US has only participated in one of Pakistan's conflict as exactly documented in history so show me other otherwise and more importantly the rest of the world) 

As far as ignorance goes ... 

Eagle367 said:

You need to check your bias. It's showing heavy. And you think the US has not harboured terrorists at all? That's a big fat lie. And the fact that you view one side as all good and the other side as all bad just shows that western propaganda is working on you. Just read books by Pakistani authors for once. Or even historians rather than politicians. Also it's no use talking to someone who sees you, your people and your country as an evil entity. That means they are in no way trying to learn things and have a constructibe debate but rather put down any viewpoints that the other side is presenting. Same with how your view of China is rotten. You can learn some pretty incredible things that Chinese and pakostanisare doing if you let go of this one dimensional view of the world.

Is Pakistan innocent? No. Is China innocent? No. Is the US or Afghanistan innocent? No. Is NATO innocent? No. Is India? No

Is the US pure intentioned? Hell No! Is Pakistan pure intentioned? Hell No! Is anyone pure intentioned in this? Don't know, maybe the people living there who only want peace. 

Is Pakistan the most to blame? Not in my opinion.

@Bold It's ironic you say that all the while probably feeling patriotic ... 

Also where's your evidence that the US has knowingly sheltered terrorists or war criminals with geopolitical interests in it's own territory like Pakistan did ? Nobody's trying to paint Pakistan as "evil" since practically all nations have their own secret geopolitical interests but why do you try so hard to deny this possibility or make the exception for Pakistan ? You know what, fuck whatever NATO says since this isn't getting to any of you but what do you have to say in defense of the accusations laid against Pakistan's neighbors such as India, Afghanistan, and especially Tajikistan ? The so called "one dimensional view of the world" is our reality and China see Pakistan as nothing more than a tool so they'll milk the CPEC for all it's worth since China has the stronger negotiating position ... 

"Is Pakistan the most to blame? Not in my opinion."

Really ? Then I suppose you can explain Pakistan's neighboring countries of their accusations ? 

Eagle367 said: 

Is the US the most to blame? In my informed opinion, yes. The US is the biggest player and the one who started it. They trianed Usama bin Ladin. They trained what became Taliban. They intentionally or unintentionally did things which resulted in the creation of daesh. They might've lost trillions, but their military complex made a lot of cash. No other country did. They've lost the least in terms of actual human life while have killed a lot of innocents. They breach borders and have killed innocent Pakistanis in drone strikes. They still have the least to lose other than their dignity and respect. 

The US does not have the power of foresight so placing the responsibility of Osama bin Laden on them is hardly reasonable but Pakistan on the other hand in their own controlled borders somehow failed to prevent a build up of support network for a WANTED international war criminal ... 

The US indeed does make money on their military industrial complex through guarding trade routes but they don't get jack shit for cooperating with Pakistan when the same militant groups they face in Afghanistan coincidentally comes from Pakistan ... 

"No other country did." 

That is not true and you of all people should know better than this especially since your home country borders near a potential superpower that just recently whipped South East Asia into shape and they want to reclaim taiwanese controlled territory back ... 



Maybe PUBG will be playable again? I feel bad and all that their government oppresses its own people like this, but boy do they quickly ruin every game they touch.