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Forums - Politics Discussion - 'I was angry and I sent it': Another Justice Brett Kavanaugh accuser referred to FBI after recanting

NightlyPoe said:
Eagle367 said:

I didn't know about the Harvard thing. First things first, this isn't point scoring for me like how your republicans and democrats do it. This is genuinely me thinking of my own country and what sort of person I want in the supreme court. I would want an above average person. That means above average in logic, in reason, in emotion and all other calibres. I would also want an impartial person who does well to keep his biases to his personal life. So when you say anyone would react like that, i'm saying I don't want anyone on any supreme court, I want the best most competent ones. That's what I am saying. If anyone will behave like that, why not just get a run of the mill judge. And he was there in his capacity to show what kind of justice he will be on the supreme court, like it or not. And he knew he would win. I'm not saying this is a republican thing, but in general parties in any country always stick to their man, more so in US these days, so he 99% knew he was a supreme court justice. Only the formalities remained. If you pretend you didn't know that, then I'm sorry but you have a bias whether you know it or not. So all in all what I saw of Brett cavanaugh, I wouldn't vote for him is all I say without any sort of affiliation bias

Look, just because you say you're unbiased doesn't mean you're not.  There is no overlap between a man's reaction to being accused of a heinous crime and his ability to function as a judge.  He's functioned as a judge for over a decade and was widely held to be the model of a professional.  Instead of using that, you only look at his reaction to watching his whole reputation burned for pure political purposes by senators that truly were acting atrociously.  This mugging a man and leaving him without the reputation that he carefully built throughout his life and expecting him to not strike back at his tormentors is simply ridiculous.  Again, his life is never going to be the same.  His daughter's lives will never be the same.  His wife's life will never be the same.  This doesn't wipe away because the news cycle turns.  It's his life going forward forever.  And you're basically using a "You mad bro" standard of judging him.

And, again, his confirmation was far from assured.  If you believe that he wasn't in danger of not passing, you weren't paying attention.

I have no love lost from either party. You can search through my posts about what I think of the US. I've been banned for that stuff. So I can say I'm unbiased and mean it. And if truly believe he was in danger of not being confirmed, you don't know how the parties in your country function. The 2 parties are not interested in what will be best for the country, they are interested in whether they keep making money or not. That's why you have gerrymandering from both sides, why healthcare and education are issues that never get resolved and why they lie about different things like immigrants, or the influence the wealthy have on both of them. Why Clinton screwed Bernie over and why people like Ted Cruz gave up any sense of decency to bow down to the new emperor of the republican party



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NightlyPoe said:
Eagle367 said:

I have no love lost from either party. You can search through my posts about what I think of the US. I've been banned for that stuff. So I can say I'm unbiased and mean it. And if truly believe he was in danger of not being confirmed, you don't know how the parties in your country function. The 2 parties are not interested in what will be best for the country, they are interested in whether they keep making money or not. That's why you have gerrymandering from both sides, why healthcare and education are issues that never get resolved and why they lie about different things like immigrants, or the influence the wealthy have on both of them. Why Clinton screwed Bernie over and why people like Ted Cruz gave up any sense of decency to bow down to the new emperor of the republican party

You are aware that after announcing your lack of bias, you went on to make self-affirmingly biased statements, correct?

I'll simply repeat again that Kavanaugh's confirmation on the night he testified was far from assured.

If you want to go there, I'm equally biased against Dems and republicans so I'm overall neutral in that stance. My bias is different from your party bickering, my bias is against your war loving government. The biases are completely different. I don't hate your people and the supreme court is mostly for your people. So again I say, I wouldn't want the guy to be my supreme court justice. And looking from the outside, I can say no one doubted that he'd be confirmed



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Eagle367 said:
He still isn't fit for the supreme court. He was angry and shouting like crazy. I wouldn't want that for my supreme court justice. Just an outsider's perspective who's neither democrat not republican and as impartial as possible.

Put yourself in his shoes and see how long you can remain calm knowing your livelihood and social status was damaged by an unsolicited claim of sexual misconduct.



NightlyPoe said:
Eagle367 said:

If you want to go there, I'm equally biased against Dems and republicans so I'm overall neutral in that stance. My bias is different from your party bickering, my bias is against your war loving government. The biases are completely different. I don't hate your people and the supreme court is mostly for your people. So again I say, I wouldn't want the guy to be my supreme court justice. And looking from the outside, I can say no one doubted that he'd be confirmed

Bias is bias, and by your own words, you're so biased as to get yourself banned.  Your worldview colors your opinion and renders them less interesting and insightful.

Your belief that "no one doubted" is simply your own bias at work.  You can find plenty of people on this forum, myself included, who questioned whether he would make it onto the court.  In the end, he essentially got in on a tied vote (one Democrat, Manchin, was going to vote for whichever side won).  If Collins (pro-choice) or Flake (anti-Trump) had peeled off that would have been the end of the nomination.

That's France an incorrect assessment. Bias is not bias. You might be biased on whether you like pizza or burgers better but that does not mean you're biased on the elections in Italy. I reject that simplistic world view of "I hate the US military and I have a bias against them" is equal to " I am biased about a supreme court justice pick in US". That makes absolutely zero sense and is a very false equivalence. You have the correct observation but a very wrong conclusion. My bias against the US military is just that, you can't extrapolate it to mean anything else. And I was exxagerating when I talked about everyone but I was talking about outside the US. So of course republicans are mostly going to say his nomination was in jeopardy. Anyone who has no bias in favour of one party compared to the other is the people I am referring to. And as I said I have no bias towards the people of the US or more accurately an equal amount of bias for all of them if you think that you have to have a bias for everyone and everything. Hence I again insinuate the point that I wouldn't want Brett to be my supreme court justice as I feel he won't be a very good one



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GOWTLOZ said:
Eagle367 said:
He still isn't fit for the supreme court. He was angry and shouting like crazy. I wouldn't want that for my supreme court justice. Just an outsider's perspective who's neither democrat not republican and as impartial as possible.

Put yourself in his shoes and see how long you can remain calm knowing your livelihood and social status was damaged by an unsolicited claim of sexual misconduct.

I'm not a supreme court nominee, I'm just a Pakistani science student studying at McGill. It's false equivalence to compare my reaction to a professional in the field who's supposed to be the best of the best. The best police officers can stop a robbery without any innocent getting hurt and the culprit in custody. I would never be able to do that. Similarly if I want to be the best physicist, I would never let my bias of religious or political beliefs affect my work in the lab and the research that I do. For Brett that meant behaving like the best judge and not revealing any bias or a hint of unprofessionalism. Instead he let all his emotions go and basically said F.U to any hint if of professionalism. He also lied about some stuff while on the stand. That is why i would never be a good supreme court justice and no one will pick me to be. He however was supposedly the best because the party defended him like no other justice could ever take his place. 



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irstupid said:
SpokenTruth said:

That's not what Biden said.  He said in June of 1992 that if a SC position needed to be filled that it should wait until after the election so that it doesn't interfere with the RNC, DNC, etc...

"In my view, politics has played far too large a role in the Reagan-Bush nominations to date. One can only imagine that role becoming overarching if a choice were made this year, assuming a justice announced tomorrow that he or she was stepping down.

"Should a justice resign this summer and the president move to name a successor, actions that will occur just days before the Democratic Presidential Convention and weeks before the Republican Convention meets, a process that is already in doubt in the minds of many will become distrusted by all. Senate consideration of a nominee under these circumstances is not fair to the president, to the nominee, or to the Senate itself.

"Mr. President, where the nation should be treated to a consideration of constitutional philosophy, all it will get in such circumstances is a partisan bickering and political posturing from both parties and from both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue. As a result, it is my view that if a Supreme Court Justice resigns tomorrow, or within the next several weeks, or resigns at the end of the summer, President Bush should consider following the practice of a majority of his predecessors and not — and not — name a nominee until after the November election is completed."

Mitch McConnell just twisted the hell out of what he said to make it look like Biden said no to a nominee in an election year.  In other words, Biden was fine with Bush getting to nominate his choice, he just didn't want that process creating further problems before the elections took place. 

 

 

I have no idea what Mitch McConnell said. I only read what Biden said when I heard that he said it in the past, so my statement was based off of my interpretation of what he said. Let's go over what he said then.

"In my view, politics has played far too large a role in the Reagan-Bush nominations to date. One can only imagine that role becoming overarching if a choice were made this year, assuming a justice announced tomorrow that he or she was stepping down.

In my view, politics has played far too large a role in the Trump nominations to date. One can imagine the role becoming overarching if a choice were made this year, assuming a justice announced tomorrow that he or she was stepping down. (How does that sound? Sounds like today's climate perfectly. Dems would be screaming about waiting to nominate until after Nov 6th, if anyone would have died/resigned earlier this year)

"Should a justice resign this summer and the president move to name a successor, actions that will occur just days before the Democratic Presidential Convention and weeks before the Republican Convention meets, a process that is already in doubt in the minds of many will become distrusted by all. Senate consideration of a nominee under these circumstances is not fair to the president, to the nominee, or to the Senate itself.

So what he is saying here is what exactly? Sounds like he is saying that a president should not nominate a successor before the next group of senators are voted on and cemented into place. Otherwise what? 

"Mr. President, where the nation should be treated to a consideration of constitutional philosophy, all it will get in such circumstances is a partisan bickering and political posturing from both parties and from both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue. As a result, it is my view that if a Supreme Court Justice resigns tomorrow, or within the next several weeks, or resigns at the end of the summer, President Bush should consider following the practice of a majority of his predecessors and not — and not — name a nominee until after the November election is completed."

How does this not sound like something that perfectly illustrates today again. Partisan bickering and political posturing from both parties. 

Biden:  "The President should wait to nominate any potential SC candidate until after the November election" (and by implication, the Senate would hear and vote on the nominee in the time between then and the next President's inauguration)
McConnell:  "The President should not get to nominate anyone, but let the unfilled seat go to the next President"

Do you really see these as equivalent?  (Alternatively, if you think I'm being unfair in summarizing the two positions, how so?) 



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NightlyPoe said:
Eagle367 said:

That's France an incorrect assessment. Bias is not bias. You might be biased on whether you like pizza or burgers better but that does not mean you're biased on the elections in Italy. I reject that simplistic world view of "I hate the US military and I have a bias against them" is equal to " I am biased about a supreme court justice pick in US". That makes absolutely zero sense and is a very false equivalence. You have the correct observation but a very wrong conclusion. My bias against the US military is just that, you can't extrapolate it to mean anything else. And I was exxagerating when I talked about everyone but I was talking about outside the US. So of course republicans are mostly going to say his nomination was in jeopardy. Anyone who has no bias in favour of one party compared to the other is the people I am referring to. And as I said I have no bias towards the people of the US or more accurately an equal amount of bias for all of them if you think that you have to have a bias for everyone and everything. Hence I again insinuate the point that I wouldn't want Brett to be my supreme court justice as I feel he won't be a very good one

Again you affirm your own bias.  Your statements about how the parties work are the basis.  Not anything about the military.

And you have presented nothing that would indicate whether Kavanaugh would be a good or bad justice.  He has, in fact, had a sterling reputation as a professional while on the bench and has been quite influential even while on a lower court.  Again, you're basing this on a "You mad bro?" standard where his personal and professional life was utterly upended.  I say again there there is a smugness in then judging a person unfit because they dare be emotional about having their lives irreparably damaged.

 

I feel like I'm just repeating myself here and so are you. I have given you my reasoning for why I think he'll be bad. My belief is judge people personally at their best and professionally at their worst. And I am affirming my bias for the military, so that has nothing to do with any bias against Brett so I say, my bias for  the military has nothing to do with Brett being a bad pick in my opinion. I have been as clear as I can be. And I understand that you disagree. I've shown you my perspective as have you so this is meaningless at this point. Have a good day and history will tell which of us was right. Of course if he does things you agree with, you'll be happy because it benefits you. What he does won't affect me that much so all I can do is access whether he's good or bad objectively. Let's just hope he doesn't do anything extremely bad

 



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NightlyPoe said:
Eagle367 said:

I feel like I'm just repeating myself here and so are you. I have given you my reasoning for why I think he'll be bad. My belief is judge people personally at their best and professionally at their worst. And I am affirming my bias for the military, so that has nothing to do with any bias against Brett so I say, my bias for  the military has nothing to do with Brett being a bad pick in my opinion. I have been as clear as I can be. And I understand that you disagree. I've shown you my perspective as have you so this is meaningless at this point. Have a good day and history will tell which of us was right. Of course if he does things you agree with, you'll be happy because it benefits you. What he does won't affect me that much so all I can do is access whether he's good or bad objectively. Let's just hope he doesn't do anything extremely bad

 

No one is talking about the military but you.  Your bias was about the parties and how they supposedly work in my country (a factually incorrect bias in this case), demonstrating a distinct distaste.  You are then claiming objectivity.  This is nonsense no matter how you slice it.

In addition, Kavanaugh was not acting in a professional capacity.  He was reacting to a personal attack.  Again, there is not an overlap between becoming angry at the injustice of having one's reputation is permanently damaged, your life put in danger, and your family being negatively impacted and acting professionally when in your job.  And even if there was an overlap, it would be wiped out by the many years where Kavanaugh has demonstrated his professionalism as a judge as opposed to the shameful circus he was a victim of.

I disagree. That's not a bias, that's an observation of politics around the world. I started with stating how every party in every country does something similar. Though the US parties are one of the worse offenders as of late. We're going in circles so have a good day



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LivingMetal said:
SecondWar said:

The Republicans rushed through and half-assed an investigation into a serious matter. Dr Ford may have not been able to prove Kavanaugh attacked her, but neither has Kavanaugh proven that he didn't.

Let me restate the question: Do YOU think Justice Kavanaugh tried to rape Dr. Ford?

It's the most parsimonious explanation for all of the relevant testimony. Booze-boy Bart got hammered and mistook silence for acquiescence and went for it. That being said, memory is a funny thing and it's hard for me to take all of Ford's testimony prima facie. There are certain factors which call into question the events, but not necessarily the parties involved.

I wouldn't call it attempted rape at all. I think it's far more likely to merely be an innocent mistake of unwanted sexual advancement / assault.

That being said, Brett is either logically inept or mendacious. Neither of these qualities should allow one to rise to the level of the supreme court.



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