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Forums - Politics - Was Hitler a Socialist?

PwerlvlAmy said:
Peh said:

Is this statement supposed to be a joke I am not getting?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

The term "National Socialism" arose out of attempts to create a nationalist redefinition of "socialism", as an alternative to both international socialism and free market capitalism

 

The majority of scholars identify Nazism in both theory and practice as a form of far-right politics.[14] Far-right themes in Nazism include the argument that superior people have a right to dominate other people and purge society of supposed inferior elements.[15] Adolf Hitler and other proponents denied that Nazism was either left-wing or right-wing, instead they officially portrayed Nazism as a syncreticmovement.

 

Hitler was not far left, nor was he a socialist.

Please stop spreading nonsense and educate yourself on this topic.


Not spreading anything. But I wouldn't exactly use Wikipedia is a source though. Just saying. 

So, does it make me wrong of what I have posted?

 

Should I post ISBN numbers and book pages instead? Wikipedia lists their sources as references. Everyone is free to verify them. 



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Peh said:
PwerlvlAmy said:
Aye. Hitler was far left and a socialist. Some values the more left leaning people in america currently share in common. Not all of course,minority.

Is this statement supposed to be a joke I am not getting?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

The term "National Socialism" arose out of attempts to create a nationalist redefinition of "socialism", as an alternative to both international socialism and free market capitalism

 

The majority of scholars identify Nazism in both theory and practice as a form of far-right politics.[14] Far-right themes in Nazism include the argument that superior people have a right to dominate other people and purge society of supposed inferior elements.[15] Adolf Hitler and other proponents denied that Nazism was either left-wing or right-wing, instead they officially portrayed Nazism as a syncreticmovement.

 

Hitler was not far left, nor was he a socialist.

Please stop spreading nonsense and educate yourself on this topic.


Alt-right and liberalism historical revisionism, maybe? Oversimplification of a complex science politcs idea: left  to right panorama's schematics. 

Last edited by Agente42 - on 09 October 2018

o_O.Q said:
WolfpackN64 said:
Of course not. He was a fascist and never claimed otherwise.

can you explain how fascism and socialism are mutually exclusive?

i'd argue that socialism is in line at least partially with fascism because socialism is about stopping private ownership or in other words opposition to state owned business

"Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy"


They are ideologically mutually exclusive. Their ideas on statehood, personhood and even the economy are radically different. Idealistic Socialism argues for a fully cooperative economy (no state, no corporations), while Marxism-Leninism opted for a fully state driven economy.

The economy in Nazi Germany has more in common with a State Capitalistic society. Technically a free market, but with heavy state involvement in strategic sectors by means of working closely together with a few corporations in said sector.

I mean, the complete counterfactual reasoning that fascism and socialism are ideologically related would eventually mean you could lump capitalism and liberalism in there as well. That's just rediculous.



Anyone who seriously thinks that Hitler was a socialist has a very warped understanding of what socialism is. Left is not merely statist, and statism is not merely socialism. On the contrary, statism has more to do with the right - even though it is true that left socialist states of the 20th century were very statist. Hitler did things that could be seen as adhering to a form of socialism, but these things were not uniquely socialist (creating jobs, appealing to workers, and strengthening industry were not exclusively left-wing ideals but part of a general rubric of progressive and industrialising tendency that had affected many states regardless of orientation).

 

And he certainly, CERTAINLY, wasn't a liberal. Come on. Do we even know what liberalism stands for before saying such ridiculous things? Liberalism advocates the maximisation of individual liberty. Hitler espoused a far more unified, collective (hence the "socialist" inspiration) state, where the people proceed as one: one voice, one Fuhrer, one party. There is literally nothing more oxymoronic than calling Hitler a liberal. 



fleischr said:

When big corporations team up with the government to force acquisition of smaller corporations or competitors, or simply to swindle people, that's not capitalism. That's fascism.

That sounds a lot like the United States. The republicans prefer to refer to it as capitalism though.



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PwerlvlAmy said:
Aye. Hitler was far left and a socialist. Some values the more left leaning people in america currently share in common. Not all of course,minority.

Could you elaborate your reasoning? I'm very curious to see what made you say this.



melbye said:
The National Socialist party of which Hitler was the leader of controlled every aspect of society including corporations, of course he was socialist

Except he didn't control the companies.



WolfpackN64 said:
o_O.Q said:

can you explain how fascism and socialism are mutually exclusive?

i'd argue that socialism is in line at least partially with fascism because socialism is about stopping private ownership or in other words opposition to state owned business

"Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian ultranationalism, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy"


They are ideologically mutually exclusive. Their ideas on statehood, personhood and even the economy are radically different. Idealistic Socialism argues for a fully cooperative economy (no state, no corporations), while Marxism-Leninism opted for a fully state driven economy.

The economy in Nazi Germany has more in common with a State Capitalistic society. Technically a free market, but with heavy state involvement in strategic sectors by means of working closely together with a few corporations in said sector.

I mean, the complete counterfactual reasoning that fascism and socialism are ideologically related would eventually mean you could lump capitalism and liberalism in there as well. That's just rediculous.

"Idealistic Socialism argues for a fully cooperative economy (no state, no corporations), while Marxism-Leninism opted for a fully state driven economy."

can you explain to me rationally how a society can be run without some type of centralised(state) control?

i'm pretty sure that you can't... how then does socialism devolve power from individuals to the "community"?

 

"The economy in Nazi Germany has more in common with a State Capitalistic society. Technically a free market"

this is a lie, the businesses in germany were controlled by the state

the businesses did not have freedom with respect to how they were run since the state controlled that

 

"I mean, the complete counterfactual reasoning that fascism and socialism are ideologically related"

ideal socialism is a fairy tale... i'm talking about what happpes when people try to put these ideas into practice

 

"would eventually mean you could lump capitalism and liberalism in there as well."

how so?



Vinther1991 said:
melbye said:
The National Socialist party of which Hitler was the leader of controlled every aspect of society including corporations, of course he was socialist

Except he didn't control the companies.

 

...but he did

" German business increasingly turned to Nazism as offering a way out of the situation, by promising a state-driven economy that would support, rather than attack, existing business interests.[35] By January 1933, the Nazi Party had secured the support of important sectors of German industry, mainly among the steel and coal producers, the insurance business and the chemical industry.[36]

Large segments of the Nazi Party, particularly among the members of the Sturmabteilung (SA), were committed to the party's official socialist, revolutionary and anti-capitalist positions and expected both a social and an economic revolution when the party gained power in 1933."

Hitler actively sought to gain the support of business leaders by arguing that private enterprise is incompatible with democracy."

 "In addition, the Nazis privatised public properties and public services, but at the same time they increased economic state control through regulations."



The Nazis referred to themselves as 'national socialists' but that ends up being a very different concept from socialism despite the similarities in name, mainly as the former is all about elevating one group above others and the latter is about treating all groups equally.

In terms of government actions, they again get conflated as socialism is usually used as a synonym for communism, and liken to the USSR. Both far right and far left governments seek to set up a totalitarian state, which is where you get the horse-shoe theory from.