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Forums - Movies & TV - Update: Latest rumor shows casting for a white Ciri | Original: Netflix looking for non-white actress to play Ciri in the Witcher tv series

HoloDust said:

No, you are not right, you have an opinion, which you're trying to shove down people's throat from your high horse, and as I said, I don't give rats ass about any of that.
You even think that quotes help you...oh dear, your distortion field is just hilarious.

All I gathered so far about you is just showing how ignorant you are about Witcher lore and how much forced diversity is important to you.

I'm not wrong, though. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of ethics. People are disproportionately angry about this and the only reason I can think for that backlash is, well, racist white people complaining. I saw someone else get banned for saying something similar so I didn't want to bring it up, but there's no logical reason to be THIS upset about a casting decision unless there was some underlying fear buoyed by that sort of ignorant rhetoric that completely disregards history in lieu of some misguided cry of...whatever this is. 



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3 pages arguing over the race of a fictional character. wow is all i can say



Runa216 said:
HoloDust said:

No, you are not right, you have an opinion, which you're trying to shove down people's throat from your high horse, and as I said, I don't give rats ass about any of that.
You even think that quotes help you...oh dear, your distortion field is just hilarious.

All I gathered so far about you is just showing how ignorant you are about Witcher lore and how much forced diversity is important to you.

I'm not wrong, though. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of ethics. People are disproportionately angry about this and the only reason I can think for that backlash is, well, racist white people complaining. I saw someone else get banned for saying something similar so I didn't want to bring it up, but there's no logical reason to be THIS upset about a casting decision unless there was some underlying fear buoyed by that sort of ignorant rhetoric that completely disregards history in lieu of some misguided cry of...whatever this is. 

It is matter of ethics only in your head, and somehow who got yourself so high up in the clouds to consider it universal truth that you started seeing yourself as someone who "knows" and needs to educate others...which is truly just plain sad.

Fans being against this decision has nothing to do with racism - and it's oh-so easy to turn this around and call excluding white girls from casting racism and everyone supporting that anti-white racists.

I sincerely suggest you find yourself another fictional universe for which you actually care, since you said you're wasting your time here "educating", and if you can't see why this decision breaks Witcher lore, and what else needs to change to accommodate it, I sure as hell have no intent to educate you on the matter.



Runa216 said:
HoloDust said:

No, you are not right, you have an opinion, which you're trying to shove down people's throat from your high horse, and as I said, I don't give rats ass about any of that.
You even think that quotes help you...oh dear, your distortion field is just hilarious.

All I gathered so far about you is just showing how ignorant you are about Witcher lore and how much forced diversity is important to you.

I'm not wrong, though. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of ethics. People are disproportionately angry about this and the only reason I can think for that backlash is, well, racist white people complaining. I saw someone else get banned for saying something similar so I didn't want to bring it up, but there's no logical reason to be THIS upset about a casting decision unless there was some underlying fear buoyed by that sort of ignorant rhetoric that completely disregards history in lieu of some misguided cry of...whatever this is. 

Yet we have seem much more people complaining about using white actors for Death Note.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but usually fans of a work prefer it as pure as possible to the source. Some even complain about good changes that are needed just to translate from one medium to another, imagine ridiculous swaps done only to brownie points.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Baddman said:
3 pages arguing over the race of a fictional character. wow is all i can say

Honestly, it wouldn't have bothered me if the discussion started as a way to initiate a conversation about the importance of race of a fantasy/fictional character or how it affects real world casting when contrasted with affirmative action. Problem is, the conversation STARTED with vehement hatred, calls for boycotting, claims of it being disgusting and how anyone who supports it is racist against white people. 

Honestly, I'd be happy to have a discussion, but this is an argument. A fight. 

Yet still nobody can give me a good reason why Ciri CAN'T be portrayed by an asian or hispanic or black person. Just that they find it disgusting and using some VERY weak arguments about how 'she's always been portrayed as white and therefore can only be portrayed as white' or 'the books are based off an all-white culture'. Not near as strong an argument as the alternative, and certainly not extreme enough to justify the vitriol that this discussion has caused. 



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DonFerrari said:
Runa216 said:

I'm not wrong, though. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of ethics. People are disproportionately angry about this and the only reason I can think for that backlash is, well, racist white people complaining. I saw someone else get banned for saying something similar so I didn't want to bring it up, but there's no logical reason to be THIS upset about a casting decision unless there was some underlying fear buoyed by that sort of ignorant rhetoric that completely disregards history in lieu of some misguided cry of...whatever this is. 

Yet we have seem much more people complaining about using white actors for Death Note.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but usually fans of a work prefer it as pure as possible to the source. Some even complain about good changes that are needed just to translate from one medium to another, imagine ridiculous swaps done only to brownie points.

Then some fans misunderstand the very nature of adaptation. Things change. The world changes. And if the showrunners feel that doing this might allow them more room or make the cast more diverse or can use it to tell new stories or deepen the character, then I'm all there. HEll, even if it's just affirmative action, that's a better reason to chose a minority than 'purity' is to keep them white. Like, people do know how racist that makes them sound, right? "Let's keep the white roles pure!"



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Machiavellian said:
atoMsons said:
If you're not disgusted by this you're at least very biased against white people. The fact that you NEED to go against the grain of an established universe proves it. This isn't some made up story in a writers room that can be melded into which ever shape is needed and no one knows any better. The Witcher world is a carefully crafted world and characters from Andrzej Sapkowski, using his inspired mythos. Respect the work, it's art. Happens to be Eastern European based, and that means a lot of white people. Cast roles as they need to be cast. If Geralt is white, Ciri needs to be white. While not his daughter, they do have many similarities, such as complexion. This give this a father, daughter vibe. Ciri was a reward to Geralt from the Emperor, who is Ciri's actual father. Ciri is the daughter Geralt can never have (as all Witchers are sterile). If she turns into a black girl, all the sudden many of the small details of their relationship are just weird. She is a reflection of himself. If Sapkowski wanted her to be racially mixed, or colored, he would have done so. And if he did that, Sapkowski would have a reason within the world for it. But he didn't. Respect his vision, and stop trying to force your politics into his art.

Stop saying this is fictional work, it doesn't matter. The world is well defined over 13 books. It rivals the scale of Game of Thrones.

This all sounds well and good but didn't the writer of the book say he was ok with it.  If that is the case and knowing that he probably has seen the script and other decisions on casting for the series, does that not mean what you feel is important isn't.

No, he said nothing of the sort - quotes are few posts up - since some people around here don't seem to understand their meaning, I do apologize for preemptively suggesting reading them carefully.

It was advertised long ago that he is consulting, but he said he has no involvement and that he has gag order in contract not to talk about anything...or else he'll be "punished" (financially).



RolStoppable said:
Let's keep the white roles pure!

You can do better than that.



DonFerrari said:
sundin13 said:

How many black actors are there in Japan who can speak fluent Japanese? I'd wager not many.  How many black actors are there in America who can speak fluent English? Likely dozens of thousands.

This isn't a good point until you can show that there is an underserved population of actors willing to serve in those theoretical positions. From a quick google search showing one African American who became famous in Japanese commercials and a second showing another African American comedian who became a TV regular, it actually seems like Japan would welcome diversity if they had more of it available.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/7xwa99/meet-the-black-comedian-who-has-become-japans-most-unlikely-star

So we aren't going to demand them that they do shows that could have a white person talking another language and redub him (Arnold and Jackie Chan were redubbed for a long time)? Or demand that they make content that someone talking another language would be natural? Or that talking another language and the difficulty to adapt?

No, we aren't.

The issue with your comparison between the Japanese movie industry and the American movie industry is that they are fundamentally different and the pool of actors they serve are fundamentally different. However, even if they were identical, it still wouldn't really be the place of a bunch of Americans (or Westerners) to insist upon a cultural change in a foreign nation (assuming the original culture isn't violating human rights or anything that is outside of the scope of this conversation). It is the role of Americans to influence change in our own media. It is not hypocrisy for an American to request greater diversity in the media created in this country but not do the same for Bollywood. That is a fairly unreasonable expectation.



Runa216 said:
DonFerrari said:

Yet we have seem much more people complaining about using white actors for Death Note.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but usually fans of a work prefer it as pure as possible to the source. Some even complain about good changes that are needed just to translate from one medium to another, imagine ridiculous swaps done only to brownie points.

Then some fans misunderstand the very nature of adaptation. Things change. The world changes. And if the showrunners feel that doing this might allow them more room or make the cast more diverse or can use it to tell new stories or deepen the character, then I'm all there. HEll, even if it's just affirmative action, that's a better reason to chose a minority than 'purity' is to keep them white. Like, people do know how racist that makes them sound, right? "Let's keep the white roles pure!"

So in adaptation does that world explains that heritage is something completely different where you don't get the genetic or traits from your parents?

sundin13 said:
DonFerrari said:

So we aren't going to demand them that they do shows that could have a white person talking another language and redub him (Arnold and Jackie Chan were redubbed for a long time)? Or demand that they make content that someone talking another language would be natural? Or that talking another language and the difficulty to adapt?

No, we aren't.

The issue with your comparison between the Japanese movie industry and the American movie industry is that they are fundamentally different and the pool of actors they serve are fundamentally different. However, even if they were identical, it still wouldn't really be the place of a bunch of Americans (or Westerners) to insist upon a cultural change in a foreign nation (assuming the original culture isn't violating human rights or anything that is outside of the scope of this conversation). It is the role of Americans to influence change in our own media. It is not hypocrisy for an American to request greater diversity in the media created in this country but not do the same for Bollywood. That is a fairly unreasonable expectation.

Not only Japanese, I'm including all countries that aren't majority "white" (as if everybody that have "white skin" were the same), did you miss Bolywood?

So it's unreasonable to force other countries to change their culture (I guess then Witcher belongs to American culture?) but it's ok to demand USA change their own to "be inclusive" to foreign culture? Or when they adapt other country original work and make it american being offended is right or wrong?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."