Jaicee said:
Pemalite said:
As someone who is part of the LGBTQI community with a heap of Trans friends... I also disagree with her. Strongly.
Sadly, someone, somewhere will associate this with everyone on the left-wing political spectrum or the LGBTQI community.
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I must not be sufficiently in touch with the heart of the scene anymore. What does the I stand for?
Have mercy on me. I grew up in a time when it was just the LGB movement. There was no T, there was no Q, and there certainly was nothing else. It was about sexual orientation. That was pretty well all. It doesn't even seem like that's the main focus of it anymore. (Sorry to sound exhausted.)
Anyway, I do appreciate the support! Thank you. And yeah, I don't think that many people here would consider me to be without "left wing credentials" or whatever, and like you, I don't see the rejection of homosexuality as a valid orientation as representing a left wing type of outlook.
HylianSwordsman said:
You're definitely in a safe place to say this, haha. I agree that certain demands of the transgender movement are unreasonable, and that I frequently feel like progressive leaning areas of discourse are not safe to express such an idea, and I find that very frustrating. This demand you highlight here is particularly repulsive. I would however say that it is entirely possible for someone born with a penis to have the a gender identity opposite their sex. I've seen instances of transgendered elementary schoolers attempting suicide over having the gender corresponding to their sex forced upon them. For someone that young to have such a strong connection of their identity to the gender opposite their sex, and for that to develop at an age before one develops most of their identity (during your teens) suggest to me that it isn't someone playing around with their identity or not serious about feeling that they are the gender they believe themselves to be, and I don't think it's the product of some psychosis or psychological disorder either, as there is already scientific evidence suggesting that a transgender child's mind develops differently in the womb to a cisgender child. As this is the best evidence I have to explain the phenomenon, I don't believe that transgendered individuals are "men" claiming to be "women" or vice versa, but rather that their minds truly are of a gender opposite their biological sex. It sounds, according to the rhetoric you use, like you reject the sincerity of the claims of transgendered individuals. I used to reject it as well, up until probably the early 2010s, when I came upon sufficient evidence that convinced me that transgendered individuals were sincere and that like sexual orientation, their gender identity was determined at birth, not formed later.
That said, no one, man or woman, regardless of what genitals they have, has any right to demand anyone else to have no preference for what genitals they wish to have sex with. Such demands, I daresay, border on rape culture. I should add though, on your note of "all women anyway", that in theory, transgender female-to-male individuals, who have vaginas, could hypothetically ask gay males to not have a preference for penises and accept vaginas, in a mirror of the situation you're concerned about here. I don't know if such demands are made (hell maybe it was made in that video, which I confess I didn't have the patience or temperament to sit through) but they would be equally wrong.
I don't blame you for finding the male penis disgusting either. I do myself, so it's easy to imagine.
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For me, the trajectory has been in the other direction. I used to be more supportive of what is today called the transgender movement. But much of that was born out of a different time frame when the term "gender" was less fashionable, trans-identified people were mostly biologically male and far smaller in number, and did not typically change their names or pronouns until after undergoing a transition surgery (which they rarely bothered to). I adapted myself to the current, 21st century concept of what it is to transgender over the course of the current decade, but have had more and more problems with it over time. The tipping point for me on this issue, I would say, came earlier this year when an online friend of mine who had identified herself as male transitioned back to a female identity. Her explanation of what had happened to her was just very clarifying. She hadn't been insincere or anything, but she had been manipulated by the current climate. Her body insecurities and insecurities as a butch lesbian had been exploited and she'd felt pressured to adopt a male identity to "correct" herself and came to believe that it was real. I think there are going to be a lot more cases like her's in the coming years, and that their voices will be censored by the queer community (they already are).
This is the personal side of why I really have no respect for those who are demanding that society just de-medicalize transitioning altogether and embrace a new standard of self-identification alone. That's what the transgender movement is currently demanding, and will probably eventually get. They already have in some (particularly backward) countries (like Pakistan and Iran, for example, where homosexuality is a criminal offense).
setsunatenshi said:
maybe it's some cultural differences then. i find other stuff gross... like touching bugs or smelly trash or people who don't shower for way too long. i think it's the act of interacting, by touch or smell with something I don't feel comfortable that could potentially gross me out. but even in those cases just the visual representation or mental picture does absolutely nothing to gross me out in any way. if you really feel that extreme disgust then you really might be in the realm of some phobia/s.
it kind of reminds of of those type of guys that are actually homophobic (not like the individual in the video describes) and get grossed out by even same sex kissing or holding hands. they probably have some insecurities that make then feel that way.
i'm not criticizing either of you if you really feel that way, it was just interesting to me as I don't think I ever met a person who declared such extreme feelings against a normal human body part
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The crux of the penis matter for me is that I really don't like feeling invaded. It makes me feel violated and demeaned. There is less than nothing erotic or exciting about that to me. The sight of a penis conveys that idea to me. I don't even like strap-ons or dildos.
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