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Forums - General Discussion - Do you believe in God? Why/Why not?

 

Do you believe in any god?

Yes 63 36.21%
 
No 111 63.79%
 
Total:174
setsunatenshi said:
oh wow... I opened this and was sent back to the internet circa 2006 where these discussions usually happened :D

These discussions will always happen as long as there are theists and atheists in the world...



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LuccaCardoso1 said:
setsunatenshi said:
oh wow... I opened this and was sent back to the internet circa 2006 where these discussions usually happened :D

These discussions will always happen as long as there are theists and atheists in the world...

that's true... it's just a shame that the arguments used to persuade atheists are still the same no matter which year you have the discussion :)

argument from ignorance, appeal to emotion, Pascal's wager, infinite regression,...

 

did I forget any?



Flilix said:
WolfpackN64 said:

This will always circle. The most good world would be an unfree world, the best world is a free world, but which incorporates a neutral world and the possibility of evil. There are other conceptual problems with an exclusively good world (like the possibility of good without evil). In Daoism for example, the most Good world just wouldn't be possible without the negative aspects.

It's indeed hard to imagine what the best world would be like, but for God that shouldn't be a problem. I can definitely think of some (minor) things that he could have done better, without any possible negative consequences.

Actually, why did he even bother to create a world? Why doesn't he just let us into his paradise immediately?

Possibly, but our world has evolved on it's own for quite a bit now. Even if tornadoes weren't part of a design, the circumstances of nature created them. Not to say God couldn't have changed this, but perhaps, all things taken into account, not intervening was the best course of action.

And the last one is pretty simple. For heaven to remain a paradise if all humans were let in, all humans would need to be good. With free will, we aren't good in se.



setsunatenshi said:
LuccaCardoso1 said:

These discussions will always happen as long as there are theists and atheists in the world...

that's true... it's just a shame that the arguments used to persuade atheists are still the same no matter which year you have the discussion :)

argument from ignorance, appeal to emotion, Pascal's wager, infinite regression,...

 

did I forget any?

The arguments are many and they remain the same (with some new additions every once in a while) because while they aren't conclusive to hardcore atheists or skeptics, it's pretty hard to refute any one of them in their entirity.



LuccaCardoso1 said:
mZuzek said:

I don't necessarily believe that's how things happened, but there is no proof it either was or wasn't. I just keep an open mind.

I just want to point out 1 thing about this: Just because we have no proof that it didn't happen, it doesn't mean we should take the hypothesis seriously. The burden of proof is on the person hypothesizing.

The problem is that the proof put forward (revelation) is never accepted. So the burden actually falls on both sides because they're equally inconclusive.



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WolfpackN64 said:
Flilix said:

It's indeed hard to imagine what the best world would be like, but for God that shouldn't be a problem. I can definitely think of some (minor) things that he could have done better, without any possible negative consequences.

Actually, why did he even bother to create a world? Why doesn't he just let us into his paradise immediately?

Possibly, but our world has evolved on it's own for quite a bit now. Even if tornadoes weren't part of a design, the circumstances of nature created them. Not to say God couldn't have changed this, but perhaps, all things taken into account, not intervening was the best course of action.

Then he's not omniscient. Because if he is, he would have known that tornadoes would come into existence. And even then, earthquakes have always existed on Earth. If God designed Earth, he actively chose to put tectonic plates there, therefore he chose to cause earthquakes.



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LuccaCardoso1 said:
WolfpackN64 said:

Possibly, but our world has evolved on it's own for quite a bit now. Even if tornadoes weren't part of a design, the circumstances of nature created them. Not to say God couldn't have changed this, but perhaps, all things taken into account, not intervening was the best course of action.

Then he's not omniscient. Because if he is, he would have known that tornadoes would come into existence. And even then, earthquakes have always existed on Earth. If God designed Earth, he actively chose to put tectonic plates there, therefore he chose to cause earthquakes.

Depends on where you think his direct involvement in designing the universe or even earth goes. He can have everything to do with it or very little. Something to note about omniscience is that, just because God has the power to do things doesn't mean he does. If we have free will, God will have the freest of wills.

Last edited by WolfpackN64 - on 23 August 2018

WolfpackN64 said:
LuccaCardoso1 said:

I just want to point out 1 thing about this: Just because we have no proof that it didn't happen, it doesn't mean we should take the hypothesis seriously. The burden of proof is on the person hypothesizing.

The problem is that the proof put forward (revelation) is never accepted. So the burden actually falls on both sides because they're equally inconclusive.

Well, revelations aren't actually proofs. I can write a book right now saying that I talked to a giant spaghetti monster and he told me everything about the world and convince 10 of my friends to do the same. Wouldn't make it proof that this monster actually exists.



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WolfpackN64 said:
LuccaCardoso1 said:

Then he's not omniscient. Because if he is, he would have known that tornadoes would come into existence. And even then, earthquakes have always existed on Earth. If God designed Earth, he actively chose to put tectonic plates there, therefore he chose to cause earthquakes.

Depends on where you think his direct involvement in designing the universe or even earth goed. He can have everything to do with it or very little. Something to note about omniscience is that, just because God has the power to do things doesn't mean he does. If we have free will, God will have the freest of wills.

It doesn't matter where God's interference happened, because if he's omniscient he would know everything that would happen thereafter. Even if he just created the Big Bang, he would have known that the Earth would form and have tectonic plates, that would cause earthquakes and kill a lot of living beings.



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LuccaCardoso1 said:
WolfpackN64 said:

The problem is that the proof put forward (revelation) is never accepted. So the burden actually falls on both sides because they're equally inconclusive.

Well, revelations aren't actually proofs. I can write a book right now saying that I talked to a giant spaghetti monster and he told me everything about the world and convince 10 of my friends to do the same. Wouldn't make it proof that this monster actually exists.

True, but if thousand of people had revelations and attributed it to the same phenomena, then you must realize the revelations aren't so easily dismissed. That's why the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster utterly fails as religious sattire. A mock religion with no real foundation mocking religious institutes over 2000 years old with a long history of philosophical engagement and tradition. Just goes to show they just don't get religion at all.