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Forums - Politics Discussion - US Supreme Court: Christian baker does not have to bake 'the gay cake'

MasterThief said:
TallSilhouette said:
Sticky situation. Businesses don't have to serve individual customers, but would this fly if it was store policy or religious principle to, say, not serve black people?

honestly. the two things aren't the same. sexuality is a difference subject that has to do with how you view it religiously as well. religion doesn't tell you to be racist tho

tho I mean am not agreeing with any religion is just fairytale crap 

Indeed. They aren't the same thing.

But certain religions tend to look down upon Women just as much if not more than Homosexuals, thus the same reasoning for denying the LGBT people in this case could be leveraged against denying women.
With that in mind, I believe the cake makers went about it the wrong way, rather they should have stated that they will not bake the cake as they are "booked out" rather than make a massive anti-Gay production out of everything.

With that in mind... I am a firm believer of freedom of religion as well as freedom FROM religion, baking a damn cake is not a religious construct and should not be grounds for denying a product/service to someone.



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CrazyGamer2017 said:
eva01beserk said:

Both instances of being forced to do something you dont want to do. How different or severe thouse acts are is irrelevant.

I can't believe I'm reading what you are saying...

You compare being forced to write something HORRIBLE as a line that says "kill all Jews" to simply doing your job of making a damn cake and not spending your time judging people because they are gay? His job is to make cakes, if he does not like different people maybe he should work in a different business or work inside the kitchen of a bakery and not at the front of the store where he actually meets customers. it's not his business if someone is gay and wants a gay cake, his business is to provide cakes REGARDLESS of sexual orientation of the customer, it's DISCRIMINATION just like it used to be for the black community not so long ago.

The fact that you equate "killing all Jews" to being gay implying that both are just as bad, is mind boggling.

Theres you problem righr there. I said it dosent matter what the act is. Its still forcing you to do something you dont want to. I at no point said a gay cake and a kill jews cake are in the same league. But to a nazi the gay cake is more insulting . It dosent matter what you belive is good or evil, there will always be some other group out there that thinks the oposite of you and since we have fredom here u like europe, we dont force either group to do whay they dont want ..... Except kill or steal... But you get my point.



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Why did it have to be ruled on? This is stupid and the 7-2 ruling is more credit than I would have gave them for. What a dumb thing to bring to the SCOTUS. Like they have nothing better to do. 1 of the 2, Ginsburg, she’s gay so why didn’t she recuse herself? Everybody else has to recuse their biases.



Pemalite said:

With that in mind, I believe the cake makers went about it the wrong way, rather they should have stated that they will not bake the cake as they are "booked out" rather than make a massive anti-Gay production out of everything.

With that in mind... I am a firm believer of freedom of religion as well as freedom FROM religion, baking a damn cake is not a religious construct and should not be grounds for denying a product/service to someone.

 

Which is exactly proof that these bakery guys are deeply homophobic and prejudiced.

If they had refused in a discreet manner by making some excuse that could have seemed plausible it would have meant they are simply homophobic but wish to keep it to themselves.

But that wasn't enough, they WANTED to send a message that they are against gays and do not consider them human beings worthy of doing business with and they wanted everybody to know that, hence their "massive ant-gay production out of everything".

And now that the US Supreme Court upheld their homophobic ignorance, they can add to their sad "resume" a third line: We are homophobic, consider gays as inferiors and the US is with us on this one.

Like someone else said, this is a dangerous precedent, the seed for a new era of segregation, discrimination, maybe even apartheid and whatnot. This is one case where we can clearly see the negative influence of Trump when he chose to nominate a conservative as head of the supreme court.



CrazyGamer2017 said:
Pemalite said:

With that in mind, I believe the cake makers went about it the wrong way, rather they should have stated that they will not bake the cake as they are "booked out" rather than make a massive anti-Gay production out of everything.

With that in mind... I am a firm believer of freedom of religion as well as freedom FROM religion, baking a damn cake is not a religious construct and should not be grounds for denying a product/service to someone.

 

Which is exactly proof that these bakery guys are deeply homophobic and prejudiced.

If they had refused in a discreet manner by making some excuse that could have seemed plausible it would have meant they are simply homophobic but wish to keep it to themselves.

But that wasn't enough, they WANTED to send a message that they are against gays and do not consider them human beings worthy of doing business with and they wanted everybody to know that, hence their "massive ant-gay production out of everything".

And now that the US Supreme Court upheld their homophobic ignorance, they can add to their sad "resume" a third line: We are homophobic, consider gays as inferiors and the US is with us on this one.

Like someone else said, this is a dangerous precedent, the seed for a new era of segregation, discrimination, maybe even apartheid and whatnot. This is one case where we can clearly see the negative influence of Trump when he chose to nominate a conservative as head of the supreme court.

Remember when gay rights turned from a libertarian 'why do you care what people do in their bedroom, it doesn't affect you' to an authoritarian 'bake the gay cake or go to jail, bigot'.



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eva01beserk said:

Theres you problem righr there. I said it dosent matter what the act is. Its still forcing you to do something you dont want to. I at no point said a gay cake and a kill jews cake are in the same league. But to a nazi the gay cake is more insulting . It dosent matter what you belive is good or evil, there will always be some other group out there that thinks the oposite of you and since we have fredom here u like europe, we dont force either group to do whay they dont want ..... Except kill or steal... But you get my point.

Well in Europe we are free to buy anything in stores regardless of us being black, white, Jew, Asian, gay, lesbian etc... it seems you guys are not. But if you want to call that freedom, sure whatever. Home of the brave, Land of the (sometimes) free...

And again if you don't want to make a cake for someone cause he's gay, nobody will force you to do that in Europe, just don't become a baker, obviously. if you FREELY CHOOSE to become a baker, then it's your professional responsibility to honor customers. But I guess responsibility and seriousness is not part of the job in America?

And in the end you know what? I don't care that some idiot acts ignorant and irresponsible in his job, the real issue here is the supreme court upholding said idiot. That's the real tragedy.



CrazyGamer2017 said:
Kirin_gaming said:

So in Belgium, you can go to a Jewish owned bakery and demand a cake that says kill all Jews?

How does that even come close to the issue of the bakery? How do you compare a customer asking for a gay wedding cake to a customer demanding a line that says kill all Jews?

In what universe those two cases could ever bare the smallest similarity to each other?

What did you mean by beliefs then? You said that businesses in Belgium cannot deny service based on someone's beliefs. Also, I wasn't comparing, nor equating anything you are the one who did that.



Kirin_gaming said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

How does that even come close to the issue of the bakery? How do you compare a customer asking for a gay wedding cake to a customer demanding a line that says kill all Jews?

In what universe those two cases could ever bare the smallest similarity to each other?

What did you mean by beliefs then? You said that businesses in Belgium cannot deny service based on someone's beliefs. Also, I wasn't comparing, nor equating anything you are the one who did that.

I said beliefs/sexual orientation/color of skin etc.

It's obvious but if I must spell it out I will: You cannot refuse service over here based on a customer's beliefs. You cannot say: I will not sell you food or medical health or insurances because you are Christian or Jew or Atheist. In fact nobody in a store over here would even ask a customer what their religion, color, sexual orientation is. How is that not obvious too in the United States?



numberwang said:

Remember when gay rights turned from a libertarian 'why do you care what people do in their bedroom, it doesn't affect you' to an authoritarian 'bake the gay cake or go to jail, bigot'.

I'm not saying the idiot baker should go to jail, I'm simply saying: bake the cake and if you don't then why the hell did you become a baker in the first place?

By becoming a baker that sells to the public you are part of the social structure of your country and as such you have a moral responsibility which NO ONE is forcing you to do. If you are not up to it because of personal racist or homophobic beliefs, simply DON'T do a job where you will meet and serve other people.



CrazyGamer2017 said:
numberwang said:

Remember when gay rights turned from a libertarian 'why do you care what people do in their bedroom, it doesn't affect you' to an authoritarian 'bake the gay cake or go to jail, bigot'.

I'm not saying the idiot baker should go to jail, I'm simply saying: bake the cake and if you don't then why the hell did you become a baker in the first place?

By becoming a baker that sells to the public you are part of the social structure of your country and as such you have a moral responsibility which NO ONE is forcing you to do. If you are not up to it because of personal racist or homophobic beliefs, simply DON'T do a job where you will meet and serve other people.

So what punishment would you ascribe for the baker?