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Forums - Politics Discussion - US Supreme Court: Christian baker does not have to bake 'the gay cake'

And this is why this world is fucked up.He refused to bake a gay cake,so what?He offered other cakes,he did not refuse them service because they were gay.Why is this even an issue, if it's not his beliefs it is not his beliefs.If he had been a Jewish baker and a Nazi lover walked in and told him bake a cake for me but with the Hitler sign and he refused would there been an outcry?I doubt very much.



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CrazyGamer2017 said:
NightlyPoe said:

And we're back to pointing out that cake designers often refuse customer requests that conflict with what they're comfortable with.  I strongly suspect that you are perfectly fine with a baker refusing to design an erotic cake for a bachelor party and pointing out what they can do instead.

So unless you want to open yourself up to an obvious double standard, that argument doesn't work.

That has NOTHING to do with double standards. Double standards is when a baker says: You are straight? Come in here let's do business. You are gay? Get the fuck out, I'm not doing business with you.

If a baker refuses an erotic cake in the shape of a dick or boob, AS LONG AS he refuses to do such a cake for EVERYBODY, black, white, gay, straight, there are no double standards involved. If he does a boob cake for a white dude but refuses to do it for a black one then that is TOTAL double standards.

Don't try to use logic or concepts like double standards to win this argument cause it's a dead end for your side of the argument my friend

Again, you need to stop. You've done nothing but make strawman arguments by completely ignoring the facts, ruling and making up stuff that never happened 



Maxosaurus-rex said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

That has NOTHING to do with double standards. Double standards is when a baker says: You are straight? Come in here let's do business. You are gay? Get the fuck out, I'm not doing business with you.

If a baker refuses an erotic cake in the shape of a dick or boob, AS LONG AS he refuses to do such a cake for EVERYBODY, black, white, gay, straight, there are no double standards involved. If he does a boob cake for a white dude but refuses to do it for a black one then that is TOTAL double standards.

Don't try to use logic or concepts like double standards to win this argument cause it's a dead end for your side of the argument my friend

Again, you need to stop. You've done nothing but make strawman arguments by completely ignoring the facts, ruling and making up stuff that never happened 

Ok dude I've never responded to you because all you do is say "no", "you're wrong" and "stop", but you never even try to argue the points. That's not how debate works, I get it that you have no leg to stand on except disagree without explaining yourself but if you think I'm going to stop arguing against homophobic and discriminatory opinions, you don't know me very well. So keep telling me that I'm wrong, that I must stop etc and see if that works.



CrazyGamer2017 said:
Maxosaurus-rex said:

Again, you need to stop. You've done nothing but make strawman arguments by completely ignoring the facts, ruling and making up stuff that never happened 

Ok dude I've never responded to you because all you do is say "no", "you're wrong" and "stop", but you never even try to argue the points. That's not how debate works, I get it that you have no leg to stand on except disagree without explaining yourself but if you think I'm going to stop arguing against homophobic and discriminatory opinions, you don't know me very well. So keep telling me that I'm wrong, that I must stop etc and see if that works.

Yes, I have no leg to stand. Yet, 7 out of 9 justices agree with the people you say are making no sense. You also have been called out earlier in the thread. Also, you're the one making logical slippery slope and strawman fallacies along with red herrings here and there 



REDZONE said:
And this is why this world is fucked up.He refused to bake a gay cake,so what?He offered other cakes,he did not refuse them service because they were gay.Why is this even an issue, if it's not his beliefs it is not his beliefs.If he had been a Jewish baker and a Nazi lover walked in and told him bake a cake for me but with the Hitler sign and he refused would there been an outcry?I doubt very much.

It should not have been an issue obviously. The baker had a simple job to do, make a cake for their customers, the job is NOT decide what cake the customer must have but give the customer the cake he/she wants.

As for a nazi lover asking a Jewish baker for a cake with a swastika. Nazism has hurt Jewish people beyond anything we can even imagine so him refusing makes total sense. When did homosexuals mass murder Christians? They never did so that homophobic baker had no ground for refusal of service... other than his ignorance and homophobia and the US Supreme Court upheld that homophobia and that is both wrong and a dangerous precedent.



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TallSilhouette said:
Sticky situation. Businesses don't have to serve individual customers, but would this fly if it was store policy or religious principle to, say, not serve black people?

That wasn't the issue here. He never denied the same sex couple services. He simply said he could not decorate the cake the way the wanted it. They were even offered alternate options which they refused. If anything, he tried to provide them with a service, and they're the ones who turned down the service. 

I don't even know why this was an issue to begin with. The laws regarding this issue have been the same for over 50 years. So again, if a baker has a cake to sell and someone wants to buy that cake, services cannot be denied to that person. However, the law does not require the baker to decorate the cake. That would be like accusing McDonald's of denying you service just because they refused to put Big Mac sauce on a chicken sandwich.



Check out my art blog: http://jon-erich-art.blogspot.com

So if I understand correctly the Baker in question didn't want to decorate a cake a specific way. But he offers alternatives of what hé could do. Seriously why directly assume hé is a homophobe and sue this guy. Is it so hard to say, sorry my good sir but I want the cake as I specified and I will ask another bakery. Thank you for your time. It is not that hard. Its like those damn people who complaint about stores that are open on sunday. Well you can choose not to shop on sunday's but why should others not be allowed to do that.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

I don't agree with politics and government involving in personal lives and business.
If the guy doesn't want to bake weeding cakes for gays, he will lose this market and gay people may also do bad publicity on the baker. No need for the government to obligate someone to serve another, it isn't a monopolistic market.



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CrazyGamer2017 said:
REDZONE said:
And this is why this world is fucked up.He refused to bake a gay cake,so what?He offered other cakes,he did not refuse them service because they were gay.Why is this even an issue, if it's not his beliefs it is not his beliefs.If he had been a Jewish baker and a Nazi lover walked in and told him bake a cake for me but with the Hitler sign and he refused would there been an outcry?I doubt very much.

It should not have been an issue obviously. The baker had a simple job to do, make a cake for their customers, the job is NOT decide what cake the customer must have but give the customer the cake he/she wants.

As for a nazi lover asking a Jewish baker for a cake with a swastika. Nazism has hurt Jewish people beyond anything we can even imagine so him refusing makes total sense. When did homosexuals mass murder Christians? They never did so that homophobic baker had no ground for refusal of service... other than his ignorance and homophobia and the US Supreme Court upheld that homophobia and that is both wrong and a dangerous precedent.

My point is Christians hates Gays as much as Jews hates Nazi.They killed and entire Nation of them in the bible.He has a choice to make it or not he didn't.Life is about what you choose to do and not what someone thinks you should do and it is"HIS" business to do as he chooses.That is your problem thinking he should do it because it is the "moral" thing to do.



NightlyPoe said:

I've heard nothing that says he refused to do business with gay people, it was the act of using his artistic talents to design a wedding cake that led to his turning down the commission.

I'm confident that if a straight wedding planner or a parent of one of the brides asked him to bake it and offered the commission, he would refuse just the same.  It is the message of the end product, not the customers themselves that led him to decline.

So, double standard back in play.

Of course he'd refuse, his double standards don't apply to that specific gay couple, it's a double standards of straight vs gay. I never said he refused a cake to that couple but would have accepted to bake a cake to another gay couple or for a straight person acting on behalf of a gay couple. His narrow-mind (the baker) would obviously make him refuse to bake a gay cake for everyone that needs a gay cake. He's discriminating against a minority and that's what is wrong here.

As for your last line, double standards back at play, you were originally referring to me and I demonstrated to you that I do not apply double standards as I demonstrated with your erotic cake example. I clearly said if he refuses an erotic cake to EVERYBODY then there are no double standards, if he refuses an erotic cake to a black person but does the erotic cake for a white person then that baker does use double standards.

Double standards and prejudice by definition go along together. If you are prejudiced against a group like the LGBT community you will necessarily apply double standards since you don't hold them to the same value as you do straight people.

The baker's business is to bake cakes for CUSTOMERS, not for STRAIGHTS, GAYS, BLACKS, WHITES, ATHEISTS etc. His job is to have customers and meet their demand and this baker acted totally unprofessional because he does have double standards and prejudice. Regardless of the legal outcome, the couple was totally right to register a complaint for discrimination because discrimination is the issue here.

Last edited by CrazyGamer2017 - on 05 June 2018