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Forums - Sales - Will this be the last year PS4 outsells Switch?

Ljink96 said:
quickrick said:

Most people didn't own a wiiu, and mario kart is selling like a new entry it will do 16-18 million ltd, splatoon 2 is looking like it will reach 10 million, 3d mario is always been very close to smash in sales, and mario odyssey is taking it to a new level in terms of sales will easily reach 18 millon, zelda is on its way to 10 million all these games in released in a 7 month window, 2 of which are the highest rated games in the past 10 years, attracting the hardcore gamer crowd in a big way. 

Okay...but we're talking about 2019 here. 2017 is done, 2018 is halfway over. The question is will PS4 outsell Switch in 2019, assuming it will in 2018. Evergreen titles will continue to push hardware, like on every console, that's not what's in question here. We're talking about new software that will push hardware to a greater extent the same way Monster Hunter World, did for PS4. I don't forsee PS having those kinds of games in 2019 because its coming to an end. But I could be wrong, that is why I said I'll need to wait until E3 to make a sound judgement. Yes, Mario and Zelda are selling well, but take a look back at Nintendo's consoles...3D Mario and Zelda are always outdone by Smash Brothers, Pokemon, 2D Mario, and on par with Animal Crossing. All of which have yet to release yet.

Naturally, 2019 will be around the halfway or third mark for Switch's life cycle and this is around the time it's supposed to perform exceptionally well.

PS4 2019 looks really good so far, resident evil 2 remake, DMC5, dead or alive 6, last of us 2, and your regular great third party support, it all depends  if sony wants to make ps2 199$, or even 249$, switch on other other hand is a living off nintendo games, and i expect that market to lose momentum much faster similar to 3ds.  



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quickrick said:
Ljink96 said:

Okay...but we're talking about 2019 here. 2017 is done, 2018 is halfway over. The question is will PS4 outsell Switch in 2019, assuming it will in 2018. Evergreen titles will continue to push hardware, like on every console, that's not what's in question here. We're talking about new software that will push hardware to a greater extent the same way Monster Hunter World, did for PS4. I don't forsee PS having those kinds of games in 2019 because its coming to an end. But I could be wrong, that is why I said I'll need to wait until E3 to make a sound judgement. Yes, Mario and Zelda are selling well, but take a look back at Nintendo's consoles...3D Mario and Zelda are always outdone by Smash Brothers, Pokemon, 2D Mario, and on par with Animal Crossing. All of which have yet to release yet.

Naturally, 2019 will be around the halfway or third mark for Switch's life cycle and this is around the time it's supposed to perform exceptionally well.

PS4 2019 looks really good so far, resident evil 2 remake, DMC5, dead or alive 6, last of us 2, and your regular great third party support, it all depends  if sony wants to make ps2 199$, or even 249$, switch on other other hand is a living off nintendo games, and i expect that market to lose momentum much faster similar to 3ds.  

But you're also not taking into consideration the fact that fans of those franchises more than likely own a PS4 already. And again, we don't know Nintendo's 2019 or what it may look like. Sony is more of an open book, but Nintendo holds its secrets close to their chest. Coming off the Wii U, I don't think you're judging Nintendo based off where they are now. This is sufficed to say, a much different Nintendo than they were and since Switch will combine handheld and home console franchises on one device, Switch won't fall as easily as you predict.

We don't know about Switch 2019 third party support yet but if the E3 leak is anything to go by, I think it'll get enough support to retain its high selling stature. Keep in mind, even on the tailwinds of God of War, Switch is still within range of the PS4, on those old Nintendo Wii U ports. Which is interesting to say the least. By comparison, Switch should have been left in the dust but that wasn't necessarily the case.

So I don't think we know enough to dictate what 3rd party support Switch will get. And while they're living off Nintendo games (and tons of indies) the upcoming months look much different for Switch. You can't have a launch year like Switch had and follow up with another similar year, PS4 or Xbone sure didn't have a 1st year like Switch had, and couple that with the fact that numerous developers didn't have faith in Switch, it speaks in volumes of even against the odds, it sold like it did, in PS4's peak years.

The fact of the matter is, Switch naturally has a greater selling potential because of how long PS4 has been out on the market, and the fact that it doesn't yet have games that historically push Nintendo hardware sales to multiple months of dominance. That would be Gen 8 Pokemon, Animal Crossing, 2D Mario, etc. As great as DOA6 and DMC V sound, they're not selling more than those franchises. The bottom line is Switch has greater potential, it's younger and has more to prove than the PS4 does. 



Ljink96 said:
quickrick said:

PS4 2019 looks really good so far, resident evil 2 remake, DMC5, dead or alive 6, last of us 2, and your regular great third party support, it all depends  if sony wants to make ps2 199$, or even 249$, switch on other other hand is a living off nintendo games, and i expect that market to lose momentum much faster similar to 3ds.  

But you're also not taking into consideration the fact that fans of those franchises more than likely own a PS4 already. And again, we don't know Nintendo's 2019 or what it may look like. Sony is more of an open book, but Nintendo holds its secrets close to their chest. Coming off the Wii U, I don't think you're judging Nintendo based off where they are now. This is sufficed to say, a much different Nintendo than they were and since Switch will combine handheld and home console franchises on one device, Switch won't fall as easily as you predict.

We don't know about Switch 2019 third party support yet but if the E3 leak is anything to go by, I think it'll get enough support to retain its high selling stature. Keep in mind, even on the tailwinds of God of War, Switch is still within range of the PS4, on those old Nintendo Wii U ports. Which is interesting to say the least. By comparison, Switch should have been left in the dust but that wasn't necessarily the case.

So I don't think we know enough to dictate what 3rd party support Switch will get. And while they're living off Nintendo games (and tons of indies) the upcoming months look much different for Switch. You can't have a launch year like Switch had and follow up with another similar year, PS4 or Xbone sure didn't have a 1st year like Switch had, and couple that with the fact that numerous developers didn't have faith in Switch, it speaks in volumes of even against the odds, it sold like it did, in PS4's peak years.

The fact of the matter is, Switch naturally has a greater selling potential because of how long PS4 has been out on the market, and the fact that it doesn't yet have games that historically push Nintendo hardware sales to multiple months of dominance. That would be Gen 8 Pokemon, Animal Crossing, 2D Mario, etc. As great as DOA6 and DMC V sound, they're not selling more than those franchises. The bottom line is Switch has greater potential, it's younger and has more to prove than the PS4 does. 

We really don't know how close ps4 and switch sales are in terms of sell though, all we have is vgchartz numbers which are not reliable, ps4 could very well have a much bigger lead.

I disagree about nintendo not having the titles that historically push hardware, 3d mario is has out sold animal crossing on 3ds, mario kart is massive up there with pokemon, zelda has changed formula like god of war is being labeled as revolutionary, and well mario odyssey is another one. you mention MHW and god of war, which are much smaller franchises then all those games i mentioned, they have became much bigger with these new entries, just like 3d mario and zelda but we'll see what happens soon. animal crossing and pokemon didn't make 3ds sales explode thats for sure. 3ds had its best year when 3d mario and mario kart came out.

Last edited by quickrick - on 08 June 2018

Mnementh said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

A console peaks early when it doesn't have good third party support.  The Switch will have extremely good third party support.  That is what is going to drive sales for the Switch in 2020 and beyond.

I actually doubt it. Given, the Switch has better 3rd-party-support than all Nintendo-home-consoles since N64 (not so sure about DS/3DS though). But still, the Switch lags behind other consoles in that regard: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=236419

And that is for the games that WERE released on Switch. Many still miss it. Interesting for me though, that the yearly sports games were confirmed again, although these are sellign comparatively very bad. The only multiplat shooter so far (Doom) is also among the games with the worst split, which makes more shooters unlikely. But even other games like Lego-games sell weaker than on PS4 (although Switch starts to beat XBox One in some areas).

Add to this, that while Switch is powerful enough to make ports of many games possible, it is still weaker, which makes ports more difficult. Porting to a more powerful console is extremely easy if you do not change anything. Downscaling assets to meet a weaker hardware though is work. But more importantly I think that storage is limiting. Nintendo needed cartridges for Switch, because it wouldn't be really mobile with optical media. Still optical media does contain more storage space, allowing for more assets.

These two reasons (sales and technical limitations) will assure, that Switch will have less 3rd-party support than say PS4, although still better than many Nintendo-consoles before.

Depends on what we mean by good third party support.  What "I" mean is that it will have lots of games.  The DS, for example, had lots of third party games even though it didn't have any that sold like GTA.  The DS is basically tied for best selling console of all time though.  It had solid first party software, but first party software didn't drive hardware sales to the same extent as the Wii.  Wii had more 20m+ sellers not to mention Wii Sports which was a huge cultural phenomenon.  The DS just had a very large and diverse library.  It sold well and for a long time, because it had a huge third party library.

I actually expect Switch to have a better third party library than the DS.  All of those smaller developers that normally make handheld games for 3DS/Vita are going to be making Switch games now.  It's pretty clear that indies are also coming to the Switch in droves.  But on top of that most multiplat PS4/XB1 games I expect to include a Switch version starting next year.  So if all of this is true, the Switch will have an amazing third party library, right?

But you probably question if Switch will get a version of the games that PS4/XB1 are getting.  In your other thread you compared third party sales performance for a variety of multiplat games.  The interesting thing is that the Switch version outsold the XB1 version at least half the time (and with a smaller install base no less).  In spite of all this XB1 is still going to get plenty of multiplat games.  So if third parties will port their game to XB1, then why wouldn't they also port to the better performing Switch?

You also make a fair point about games being easier to upscale rather than downscale, but this applies to games that started development before the Switch was released.  For example, we shouldn't expect a game like Monster Hunter World to come Switch, because it would have started development before Capcom knew if the Switch was going to be successful.  However, any game that started development in 2017 or later can be made with Switch in mind from the ground up.  For example, if there is a new Monster Hunter in 2020 then you can count on it coming to Switch.  They would have had time to plan for a Switch release from the very beginning.

So this is what I mean by very good third party support: a really large library of exclusives from smaller studios, plus a decent amount of ports from bigger studios too.  When you put all of that with Nintendo's first party games, you get a pretty impressive library overall, and that impressive library is going to sell a lot of Switches.



quickrick said:
Ljink96 said:

But you're also not taking into consideration the fact that fans of those franchises more than likely own a PS4 already. And again, we don't know Nintendo's 2019 or what it may look like. Sony is more of an open book, but Nintendo holds its secrets close to their chest. Coming off the Wii U, I don't think you're judging Nintendo based off where they are now. This is sufficed to say, a much different Nintendo than they were and since Switch will combine handheld and home console franchises on one device, Switch won't fall as easily as you predict.

We don't know about Switch 2019 third party support yet but if the E3 leak is anything to go by, I think it'll get enough support to retain its high selling stature. Keep in mind, even on the tailwinds of God of War, Switch is still within range of the PS4, on those old Nintendo Wii U ports. Which is interesting to say the least. By comparison, Switch should have been left in the dust but that wasn't necessarily the case.

So I don't think we know enough to dictate what 3rd party support Switch will get. And while they're living off Nintendo games (and tons of indies) the upcoming months look much different for Switch. You can't have a launch year like Switch had and follow up with another similar year, PS4 or Xbone sure didn't have a 1st year like Switch had, and couple that with the fact that numerous developers didn't have faith in Switch, it speaks in volumes of even against the odds, it sold like it did, in PS4's peak years.

The fact of the matter is, Switch naturally has a greater selling potential because of how long PS4 has been out on the market, and the fact that it doesn't yet have games that historically push Nintendo hardware sales to multiple months of dominance. That would be Gen 8 Pokemon, Animal Crossing, 2D Mario, etc. As great as DOA6 and DMC V sound, they're not selling more than those franchises. The bottom line is Switch has greater potential, it's younger and has more to prove than the PS4 does. 

We really don't know how close ps4 and switch sales are in terms of sell though, all we have is vgchartz numbers which are not reliable, ps4 could very well have a much bigger lead.

I disagree about nintendo not having the titles that historically push hardware, 3d mario is has out sold animal crossing on 3ds, mario kart is massive up there with pokemon, zelda has changed formula like god of war is being labeled as revolutionary, and well mario odyssey is another one. you mention MHW and god of war, which are much smaller franchises then all those games i mentioned, they have became much bigger with these new entries, just like 3d mario and zelda but we'll see what happens soon. animal crossing and pokemon didn't make 3ds sales explode thats for sure. 3ds had its best year when 3d mario and mario kart came out.

As of March 31st of this year, Mario 3D Land has sold 11.96M copies. Animal Crossing New Leaf has sold 11.69 million copies despite being released 2 years after 3D Land. 3D Mario is big, but it's not that big dude. It's simply not. I even said it sells on par with Animal Crossing which it did on 3DS, actually at worse rate being released 2 years earlier.

Zelda, is big, but it again is not as big as a 2D Mario or Pokemon or Smash Bros. Historically anyway. Skyward Sword did not outsell Brawl, nor did Twilight Princess on Wii. Odyssey is huge, but more than likely Smash will outsell it, Pokemon will outsell it, 2D Mario will outsell it, and Animal Crossing will probably sell as well as Odyssey, of course depending on how the game is received and even announced. Animal Crossing and Pokemon will make Switch sales explode because this is a much different environment than we were in  6 years ago bud. And perhaps the most important part about these games...they appeal to people who don't yet own a Switch. And that in itself is huge, and brings great sales potential.

Then you have the Nintendo B tier franchises that constantly sell millions of copies, that have yet to release that still build up hardware sales. Your Fire Emblem, Yoshi, Mario RPGs, Luigi's Mansion, Kid Icarus, etc. Which is why I keep saying I'll wait until the year is up to make a decision because we don't know what Nintendo's 2019 looks like besides Pokemon Generation 8. If Nintendo does 1 huge game a month like year 1 for 2019, PS4 is more than likely not beating Switch. And just as Sony can drop the PS4 price, Nintendo could do the same as parts will be cheaper, or they can release dockless Switch units like they are in Japan. But yeah I'm done here, I'll wait for E3 and their 2019 presentation later this year to decide.

Last edited by Ljink96 - on 08 June 2018

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Ljink96 said:
quickrick said:

We really don't know how close ps4 and switch sales are in terms of sell though, all we have is vgchartz numbers which are not reliable, ps4 could very well have a much bigger lead.

I disagree about nintendo not having the titles that historically push hardware, 3d mario is has out sold animal crossing on 3ds, mario kart is massive up there with pokemon, zelda has changed formula like god of war is being labeled as revolutionary, and well mario odyssey is another one. you mention MHW and god of war, which are much smaller franchises then all those games i mentioned, they have became much bigger with these new entries, just like 3d mario and zelda but we'll see what happens soon. animal crossing and pokemon didn't make 3ds sales explode thats for sure. 3ds had its best year when 3d mario and mario kart came out.

As of March 31st of this year, Mario 3D Land has sold 11.96M copies. Animal Crossing New Leaf has sold 11.69 million copies despite being released 2 years after 3D Land. 3D Mario is big, but it's not that big dude. It's simply not. I even said it sells on par with Animal Crossing which it did on 3DS, actually at worse rate being released 2 years earlier.

Zelda, is big, but it again is not as big as a 2D Mario or Pokemon or Smash Bros. Historically anyway. Skyward Sword did not outsell Brawl, nor did Twilight Princess on Wii. Odyssey is huge, but more than likely Smash will outsell it, Pokemon will outsell it, 2D Mario will outsell it, and Animal Crossing will probably sell as well as Odyssey, of course depending on how the game is received and even announced. Animal Crossing and Pokemon will make Switch sales explode because this is a much different environment than we were in  6 years ago bud.

Then you have the Nintendo B tier franchises that constantly sell millions of copies, that have yet to release that still build up hardware sales. Your Fire Emblem, Yoshi, Mario RPGs, Luigi's Mansion, Kid Icarus, etc. Which is why I keep saying I'll wait until the year is up to make a decision because we don't know what Nintendo's 2019 looks like besides Pokemon Generation 8. If Nintendo does 1 huge game a month like year 1 for 2019, PS4 is more than likely not beating Switch. And just as Sony can drop the PS4 price, Nintendo could do the same as parts will be cheaper, or they can release dockless Switch units like they are in Japan. But yeah I'm done here, I'll wait for E3 and their 2019 presentation later this year to decide.

I'm willing to bet smash or 2d mario won't outsell odyssey. 1 month avatar bet? anyway historically doesn't mean much after we know the results, GOW is 3-5 million selling franchise now its probably  10 million+, 3d mario is 11-13 million, with odyssey its now looking like a 18-20 million franchise, but we are done here unless you wanna make the bet?   



The_Liquid_Laser said:
Mnementh said:

I actually doubt it. Given, the Switch has better 3rd-party-support than all Nintendo-home-consoles since N64 (not so sure about DS/3DS though). But still, the Switch lags behind other consoles in that regard: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=236419

And that is for the games that WERE released on Switch. Many still miss it. Interesting for me though, that the yearly sports games were confirmed again, although these are sellign comparatively very bad. The only multiplat shooter so far (Doom) is also among the games with the worst split, which makes more shooters unlikely. But even other games like Lego-games sell weaker than on PS4 (although Switch starts to beat XBox One in some areas).

Add to this, that while Switch is powerful enough to make ports of many games possible, it is still weaker, which makes ports more difficult. Porting to a more powerful console is extremely easy if you do not change anything. Downscaling assets to meet a weaker hardware though is work. But more importantly I think that storage is limiting. Nintendo needed cartridges for Switch, because it wouldn't be really mobile with optical media. Still optical media does contain more storage space, allowing for more assets.

These two reasons (sales and technical limitations) will assure, that Switch will have less 3rd-party support than say PS4, although still better than many Nintendo-consoles before.

Depends on what we mean by good third party support.  What "I" mean is that it will have lots of games.  The DS, for example, had lots of third party games even though it didn't have any that sold like GTA.  The DS is basically tied for best selling console of all time though.  It had solid first party software, but first party software didn't drive hardware sales to the same extent as the Wii.  Wii had more 20m+ sellers not to mention Wii Sports which was a huge cultural phenomenon.  The DS just had a very large and diverse library.  It sold well and for a long time, because it had a huge third party library.

I actually expect Switch to have a better third party library than the DS.  All of those smaller developers that normally make handheld games for 3DS/Vita are going to be making Switch games now.  It's pretty clear that indies are also coming to the Switch in droves.  But on top of that most multiplat PS4/XB1 games I expect to include a Switch version starting next year.  So if all of this is true, the Switch will have an amazing third party library, right?

But you probably question if Switch will get a version of the games that PS4/XB1 are getting.  In your other thread you compared third party sales performance for a variety of multiplat games.  The interesting thing is that the Switch version outsold the XB1 version at least half the time (and with a smaller install base no less).  In spite of all this XB1 is still going to get plenty of multiplat games.  So if third parties will port their game to XB1, then why wouldn't they also port to the better performing Switch?

You also make a fair point about games being easier to upscale rather than downscale, but this applies to games that started development before the Switch was released.  For example, we shouldn't expect a game like Monster Hunter World to come Switch, because it would have started development before Capcom knew if the Switch was going to be successful.  However, any game that started development in 2017 or later can be made with Switch in mind from the ground up.  For example, if there is a new Monster Hunter in 2020 then you can count on it coming to Switch.  They would have had time to plan for a Switch release from the very beginning.

So this is what I mean by very good third party support: a really large library of exclusives from smaller studios, plus a decent amount of ports from bigger studios too.  When you put all of that with Nintendo's first party games, you get a pretty impressive library overall, and that impressive library is going to sell a lot of Switches.

xbox gets ps4 ports because they are essentially the same hardware, ports require very little effort.

As for games made being in 2017, it won't make a difference, they are not gonna gimp there vision when they have 110 million ps4/xb1 users out there, so they can make the game work on switch, especially with the amazing results capcom got with MHW.



quickrick said:
Ljink96 said:

But you're also not taking into consideration the fact that fans of those franchises more than likely own a PS4 already. And again, we don't know Nintendo's 2019 or what it may look like. Sony is more of an open book, but Nintendo holds its secrets close to their chest. Coming off the Wii U, I don't think you're judging Nintendo based off where they are now. This is sufficed to say, a much different Nintendo than they were and since Switch will combine handheld and home console franchises on one device, Switch won't fall as easily as you predict.

We don't know about Switch 2019 third party support yet but if the E3 leak is anything to go by, I think it'll get enough support to retain its high selling stature. Keep in mind, even on the tailwinds of God of War, Switch is still within range of the PS4, on those old Nintendo Wii U ports. Which is interesting to say the least. By comparison, Switch should have been left in the dust but that wasn't necessarily the case.

So I don't think we know enough to dictate what 3rd party support Switch will get. And while they're living off Nintendo games (and tons of indies) the upcoming months look much different for Switch. You can't have a launch year like Switch had and follow up with another similar year, PS4 or Xbone sure didn't have a 1st year like Switch had, and couple that with the fact that numerous developers didn't have faith in Switch, it speaks in volumes of even against the odds, it sold like it did, in PS4's peak years.

The fact of the matter is, Switch naturally has a greater selling potential because of how long PS4 has been out on the market, and the fact that it doesn't yet have games that historically push Nintendo hardware sales to multiple months of dominance. That would be Gen 8 Pokemon, Animal Crossing, 2D Mario, etc. As great as DOA6 and DMC V sound, they're not selling more than those franchises. The bottom line is Switch has greater potential, it's younger and has more to prove than the PS4 does. 

We really don't know how close ps4 and switch sales are in terms of sell though, all we have is vgchartz numbers which are not reliable, ps4 could very well have a much bigger lead.

I disagree about nintendo not having the titles that historically push hardware, 3d mario is has out sold animal crossing on 3ds, mario kart is massive up there with pokemon, zelda has changed formula like god of war is being labeled as revolutionary, and well mario odyssey is another one. you mention MHW and god of war, which are much smaller franchises then all those games i mentioned, they have became much bigger with these new entries, just like 3d mario and zelda but we'll see what happens soon. animal crossing and pokemon didn't make 3ds sales explode thats for sure. 3ds had its best year when 3d mario and mario kart came out.

The reverse could also be true. Maybe we will get sell-through numbers at E3, otherwise we will have to wait until end of July for the quarterly reports where sometimes also sell-through numbers are announced.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
quickrick said:

We really don't know how close ps4 and switch sales are in terms of sell though, all we have is vgchartz numbers which are not reliable, ps4 could very well have a much bigger lead.

I disagree about nintendo not having the titles that historically push hardware, 3d mario is has out sold animal crossing on 3ds, mario kart is massive up there with pokemon, zelda has changed formula like god of war is being labeled as revolutionary, and well mario odyssey is another one. you mention MHW and god of war, which are much smaller franchises then all those games i mentioned, they have became much bigger with these new entries, just like 3d mario and zelda but we'll see what happens soon. animal crossing and pokemon didn't make 3ds sales explode thats for sure. 3ds had its best year when 3d mario and mario kart came out.

The reverse could also be true. Maybe we will get sell-through numbers at E3, otherwise we will have to wait until end of July for the quarterly reports where sometimes also sell-through numbers are announced.

I doubt it, based on nintendo own chart in europe. we will get ps4 sell through numbers, but now nintendo looks like it will go quite since there is no longer nothing boast about.



quickrick said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

The reverse could also be true. Maybe we will get sell-through numbers at E3, otherwise we will have to wait until end of July for the quarterly reports where sometimes also sell-through numbers are announced.

I doubt it, based on nintendo own chart in europe. we will get ps4 sell through numbers, but now nintendo looks like it will go quite since there is no longer nothing boast about.

What chart are you referring to?