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Forums - Politics Discussion - Israel 70 years celebration & US opens embassy in Jerusalem, lethal clashes erupt

Aeolus451 said:
kirby007 said:

I feel like im playing mass effect this is some high level indoctrination

*shrugs Think what you want, Kirby. Do you think using kids as suicide bombers against soldiers and civilians is a morally acceptable tactic in war or conflicts? Would you support a side in a war or conflict that uses those tactics?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict

Im not sure what i would do if my land was stolen tbh... that kind of injustice can reach very far to cultivate the same hate the jews reaped in germany per ww2 if it wasnt for them being the ones in power



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kirby007 said:
Aeolus451 said:

*shrugs Think what you want, Kirby. Do you think using kids as suicide bombers against soldiers and civilians is a morally acceptable tactic in war or conflicts? Would you support a side in a war or conflict that uses those tactics?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict

Im not sure what i would do if my land was stolen tbh... that kind of injustice can reach very far to cultivate the same hate the jews reaped in germany per ww2 if it wasnt for them being the ones in power

Personally, I would draw the line at “using children as suicide bombers to kill innocent people”. But that’s just me.



Kalkano said:
LiquorandGunFun said:
Another promised kept by president Trump. With all the horrible things said on this thread I know I am on the right side. It is just disgusting.

Sometimes I can't help but wonder if the only reason the left is always against Israel, is that the right is always on Israel's side.  They'd rather side with terrorists than agree with the right.

It's more than that.  Much of the anti-Israel propaganda you see disseminated today is actually the same as old Soviet propaganda.  The arguments about natives fighting back against white European imperialists are designed to appeal to a very specific sensibility.

Last edited by h2ohno - on 16 May 2018

kirby007 said:
Aeolus451 said:

*shrugs Think what you want, Kirby. Do you think using kids as suicide bombers against soldiers and civilians is a morally acceptable tactic in war or conflicts? Would you support a side in a war or conflict that uses those tactics?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_suicide_bombers_in_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict

Im not sure what i would do if my land was stolen tbh... that kind of injustice can reach very far to cultivate the same hate the jews reaped in germany per ww2 if it wasnt for them being the ones in power

Regardless of the circumstances, I would draw a line on using terrorist tactics. You can fight a guerilla war ethically without targeting civilians or using your civilians as human shields/suicide bombers. People are more likely to back your side. 



Aeolus451 said:
kirby007 said:

Im not sure what i would do if my land was stolen tbh... that kind of injustice can reach very far to cultivate the same hate the jews reaped in germany per ww2 if it wasnt for them being the ones in power

Regardless of the circumstances, I would draw a line on using terrorist tactics. You can fight a guerilla war ethically without targeting civilians or using your civilians as human shields/suicide bombers. People are more likely to back your side. 

Unfortunately, history has shown that international support for the Palestinians rises specifically when they resort to violence against civilians.  International attention and support was first drawn to groups like the PLO when they began hijacking civilian airliners in the 60s.  The Munich Massacre of 1972 again only really increased support for them.  Arafat was invited to address the UN General Assembly at a time when he did nothing but murder civilians.  Support for them grew again during both intifadas (although the support during the first intifada at least makes some sense).  We saw this again during 2014 and the 2015 'knife intifada,' when European leaders were accusing Israel of 'extrajudicial killings' for police shooting people going on stabbing rampages.  With that record, why would they not choose violence?



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Kalkano said:
konnichiwa said:

Lastly, in an independent investigation from the UN would indeed clear so much up

ROFL!  The UN is just about as anti-semitic as it gets!  We know what the outcome of their "investigation" would be before it even started!  Just disband that useless organization.

you know that statement is bs right? the UN is what gave the okay for Israel to be there in the first place.



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Aeolus451 said:
 

Well, I know that the name Pocahontas is not a racial slur to native americans.  She's a historical figure and she was presented in a positive light in that disney film.

Since there's no polls or surveys on that situation,  we don't know what the majority of native americans think of him saying it to Warren but they barely reacted to it. In this situation, I'll assume anyone who is willing to look at the context of the situation and think about it, will come to a similar conclusion as me. The context provides the reason why he said it and the word doesn't have any negative racial connotations to it.

If it was truly systematic, there would be no Palestinians in those areas at all. I support Israel because they are an ally, we have alot of time/energy/resources invested in them, they share our values and they are a good example of progress  as a country in that region. Women's rights, gay rights, decent economy, relative liberties/freedoms. They just want to be left alone and I'm fine with them defending their territory.

On the other side of this, Palestinians are the opposite and chose to elect Hamas which uses human shields, suicide bombs and other reprehensible tactics to wage war to wipe out Israel. Palestine in general is antithetical to our values and way of life. It's a very easy choice to make in who to side with.

I find this to be a highly disingenuous response that doesn't rise to the level of earning a comprehensive reply. I will, however, take just a moment to point out that the kind of nonsense you're highlighting -- this idea that the tactics Hamas used to employ decades ago (suicide bombing, etc.) -- render the entire Palestinian population (men, women, children, military or civilian) savages deserving of expulsion very much resembles the classical attitude toward Native Americans in this country. According to every Western film out of the 1950s, First Nations were all rapists and scalpers and these tactics justified the theft of all their lands and the extermination of more than 90% of their people. There is a similarity of logic that I think SHOULD bother you whether it does or not.



Eagle367 said:

 Anyways Oman>>>>>>>>>>Israel.

Just curious, really... can I bring a bible when entering Oman? Can I preach another religion than Islam? IS there free press there, can I drink alcohol or access porn websites? Can I vote for president, watch any movie I want, preach for communism?

I'm not teasing, just wanted to know if there is a really free country in middle east. I would be surprised.



Jaicee said:
Aeolus451 said:

Well, I know that the name Pocahontas is not a racial slur to native americans.  She's a historical figure and she was presented in a positive light in that disney film.

Since there's no polls or surveys on that situation,  we don't know what the majority of native americans think of him saying it to Warren but they barely reacted to it. In this situation, I'll assume anyone who is willing to look at the context of the situation and think about it, will come to a similar conclusion as me. The context provides the reason why he said it and the word doesn't have any negative racial connotations to it.

If it was truly systematic, there would be no Palestinians in those areas at all. I support Israel because they are an ally, we have alot of time/energy/resources invested in them, they share our values and they are a good example of progress  as a country in that region. Women's rights, gay rights, decent economy, relative liberties/freedoms. They just want to be left alone and I'm fine with them defending their territory.

On the other side of this, Palestinians are the opposite and chose to elect Hamas which uses human shields, suicide bombs and other reprehensible tactics to wage war to wipe out Israel. Palestine in general is antithetical to our values and way of life. It's a very easy choice to make in who to side with.

I find this to be a highly disingenuous response that doesn't rise to the level of earning a comprehensive reply. I will, however, take just a moment to point out that the kind of nonsense you're highlighting -- this idea that the tactics Hamas used to employ decades ago (suicide bombing, etc.) -- render the entire Palestinian population (men, women, children, military or civilian) savages deserving of expulsion very much resembles the classical attitude toward Native Americans in this country. According to every Western film out of the 1950s, First Nations were all rapists and scalpers and these tactics justified the theft of all their lands and the extermination of more than 90% of their people. There is a similarity of logic that I think SHOULD bother you whether it does or not.

Not decades ago, you're putting words in my mouth and you're wrongly conflating Palestinians with American indians. Indians would never put a bomb on their kids to get at the people they fighting.



h2ohno said:
Aeolus451 said:

Regardless of the circumstances, I would draw a line on using terrorist tactics. You can fight a guerilla war ethically without targeting civilians or using your civilians as human shields/suicide bombers. People are more likely to back your side. 

Unfortunately, history has shown that international support for the Palestinians rises specifically when they resort to violence against civilians.  International attention and support was first drawn to groups like the PLO when they began hijacking civilian airliners in the 60s.  The Munich Massacre of 1972 again only really increased support for them.  Arafat was invited to address the UN General Assembly at a time when he did nothing but murder civilians.  Support for them grew again during both intifadas (although the support during the first intifada at least makes some sense).  We saw this again during 2014 and the 2015 'knife intifada,' when European leaders were accusing Israel of 'extrajudicial killings' for police shooting people going on stabbing rampages.  With that record, why would they not choose violence?

Sure, they might have gotten positive support from other radicals but the international community in general is against that stuff. All violence is not the same and they crossed certain lines. Because some of them have to have some sense or tired of killing their kids to make war on jews.