By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendos 2018 Line up is pretty boring for me, so far

DélioPT said:

Well, those games have had iterations in the past and they didn't set the world on the fire.
Ask anyone about system sellers that Nintendo has and you'll hear 3D Mario, Zelda, Pokémon, MK, Animal Crossing, Smash, 2D Mario, etc., but you won't hear Kirby, Mario Tennis, Yoshi, etc.
And that's why i believe those games won't cut it, not in 2018 or beyond. Cut it, as in, sell the system.

Ports will always have a shorter appeal (they already sold to a userbase before). There are exceptions, though, like MK.
Those exceptions are the minority.

I think that assuming that sales could be better if Switch had more system sellers in 2018 is a reasonable assumption. One that could be made for every console.
Heck, even more appealing franchises would probably result in better sales.

 

To be honest, Switch is doing better than i expected. Specially in Europe.
But using a month and a half of data is enough for you to claim victory for 2018?
From what i saw with PS4, sales kinda drop after March, only to pick up in September. And from here, a great number of system sellers come out and drive HW.
If we expect the same for Switch, what games will drive HW from September onwards? Smash is a big, big seller, but i hope it's not alone.

Your problem is that you keep wanting to talk about games in isolation when that's not what sells a system. Those games will cut it because there is a steady flow of quality titles from Nintendo & 3rd parties (Japanese, Western & indies) for the rest of the year.

Both of the Wii U ports of 2017 are exceptions to your made up rule, Mario Kart & Pokken both are going to do significantly better than their original releases. The Wii U ports of 2018 could very well do the same, especially DKC which averaged about 5 million before Wii U where it did like 1/3 of that.

Yes, obviously more big games results in potentially bigger sales, that goes without saying but by the logic you are using we would have to say every year is poorly planned because even in a stacked year could be better with a couple more big games.

 

We only have 1.5 months of vgchartz estimates but we also have things like Media Create and Amazon rankings which show no notable drop in sales in the 2nd half of February or early March and with Kirby coming this week there is no reason to expect a drop in the coming weeks.

 

Media Create will have Switch at 650-700k & NPD wil have 900k-1m putting Japan+US at ~1.6 million in Q1. Add in Europe, Canada, Latin America, Australia & Asia and you are looking at ~2.5 million or so which lines right up with their forcast for the quarter of ~2.9 million shipped.

 

The games of Spring/Summer do not need to be massive system sellers, they just need to keep momentum going and considering a handful of those games are going to sell 1-2 million and another handful will sell 300k-1m, a dozen plus small-medium sized hits is enough to maintain momentum.

 

What will push hardware from Sept onward? Smash+Fire Emblem+Yoshi would be enough for the holiday period, thats a 10+ million seller and two ~2 million sellers, along with whatever 3rd parties have planned. Thats just as good or better than last years holiday period.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Around the Network
DélioPT said: 

I'm not saying Switch wasn't a plan. I'm saying that this level of success was not what was expected. Even Nintendo admitted that it didn't expect such a success.
So, yeah, things turned out to be way better than expected.

"be it 200k a week or 2m"
What is the basis for this accusation?
I said that my concerns were based on Nintendo's scheduling. 
With that in mind, i'm looking at how they planned things even before the console came out. So i'll say it again: they didn't plan well.

If you factor in sales, that plan proved to be short lived: a success in 2017, but, so far, bad for 2018.

Actually, if we look at Nintendo's expectations for the console, even there we can see that the plan was not correctly balanced.

My concern is that they could be doing more and they aren't; they could enter 2019 with a way better library and they, from the likes of it, aren't.
And when they pretty much streamlined their SW production, that's a big mistep.

I claimed smaller games have zero effect on sales? Either i didn't explained correctly or you misunderstood me.
To me, smaller games don't sell HW, but that doesn't mean they don't help in creating a library for the console and make it more or less attractive. That is pretty much implied.

But if system sellers can only carry you so far, the same goes for smaller games.
If you look at how many games PS4 has vs Xbox One, by numbers alone you won't find a reason for the difference in HW sales.
A good, diverse library is good, but you need something more if you want to win a marathon and not just the race.

Your first paragraph has nothing to do with anything, unless you're trying to say that because they underestimated themselves their resulting sales don't matter or something nonsensical like that. The basis for my accusation is what you said: "My point is that Switch could have done better, could be doing doing even better if..." and just now: "My concern is that they could be doing more and they aren't." Again pointless because you can always say that no matter how well Nintendo sells or how much Nintendo does, like you are right now despite them selling very well by any standard which proves they're doing enough and planned very well.

"So far bad for 2018," so you seriously think 200k a week is bad!? Like Zorg explained it's safe to assume it's been doing 200k a week up until now, and obviously it's not going to go down now that the consistent stream of games is starting up again, so very safe to assume 2018 will be well up YoY.

Smaller games aren't system sellers but do make a system more appealing, that's pretty contradictory. Plus you clearly don't believe yourself about increasing appeal as otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation and instead you'd recognize that the sheer number and quality of smaller titles are plenty enough to maintain/increase sales momentum.



Two evergreen multiplayer games and two GotY caliber single player games in the first 7 months and people are still asking, "Where are the system-sellers!?!" as the system continues to sell.

This will never ever ever ever stop.



KLAMarine said:
adisababa said: 
RIP Switch 3rd party support

"RIP Switch 3rd party support"

It's almost as if you don't understand what it is that motivates these third parties to release their software on a particular platform.

I'll give you a hint: it isn't specs.

Suuuuuuuuuuure, what was I thinking? It's not specs at all. I mean come on, the Switch can EASILY run Doom at a CRISPY SMOOTH 576p 20 fps.  

Where the Monster Hunter World port at (864p 27 fps on Xbox One)? Black Ops 4 announcement? Red Dead Redemption 2? Anthem? Battlefield 1 (40fps on Xbox One)?

Real talk haha, if Switch doesn't have the juice for a linear shooter, it sure as hell doesn't have it for a graphics and AI-intensive open world game or you know, any actual western AAA title that is not from a decade ago. But it's fine there are Wii U ports galore all year long. 



adisababa said:
KLAMarine said:

"RIP Switch 3rd party support"

It's almost as if you don't understand what it is that motivates these third parties to release their software on a particular platform.

I'll give you a hint: it isn't specs.

Suuuuuuuuuuure, what was I thinking? It's not specs at all. I mean come on, the Switch can EASILY run Doom at a CRISPY SMOOTH 576p 20 fps.  

Where the Monster Hunter World port at (864p 27 fps on Xbox One)? Black Ops 4 announcement? Red Dead Redemption 2? Anthem? Battlefield 1 (40fps on Xbox One)?

Real talk haha, if Switch doesn't have the juice for a linear shooter, it sure as hell doesn't have it for a graphics and AI-intensive open world game or you know, any actual western AAA title that is not from a decade ago. But it's fine there are Wii U ports galore all year long. 

You do realize there are more to 3rd parties than just AAA western titles, right?

From the start it was pretty clear Switch wasnt going to get most of those titles, instead its getting the consolidated 3rd party support of 3DS+Vita+Wii U, which is what was expected.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Around the Network
Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said: 

 

What you wrote dont make sense if you look current sales, Switch is still very good despite it had only Bayonetta 1/2 until now, and this year sales will most likly sell more than last year ones.

Games like Bayonetta 1/2, Kirby, Labo, DKTF, Hyrule Warriors, Captain Toad, Octopath traveler, Travis Strikes Again, Mario Aces...are quite different compared to last year games and they are actually expending variate of Switch game offers and they automatically expanding intrest in Switch (espacily with multiplatform ports), sales proves that beacuse Switch is still seling very good.

Its hard to have something huge evre quarter, but Labo have potential to be huge for 2nd quarter and Smash Bros is most likely 3rd quarter game (September release).

Fact that Nintendo from February will have every month 1-2 (Nintendo or exlusive release) releases means that they prepared they self like they should to continue momentum without any droughts. You sound like Switch is not selling and like its loosing momentum, but sales proves that you are wrong and you dont see that.

Your idea of variety is: any kind of variety = great variety.
The games you mentioned are mostly ports, smaller franchises and unproven ones like Octopath and Labo.
When people say they want variety, it's implied they want the best possible scenario. And companies do strive to offer the best kind of variety. Sometimes they achieve that, sometimes they don't.

The first half does not offer the best type of variety it could offer. Plain and simple.
Just to give an exemple, a scenario where instead of ports and more ports, we had more multiplats, that would be a better type of variety.

Personally, i don't hold much faith on Labo for the long term.
Honestly, i think it's going the way of the amiibo: something really cool to have at first, but then it becomes obvious that, in the case of Labo, all time and money spent 
on it doesn't equal a great experience.
Still, i could be dead wrong.

Just curious, why do you assume Smash is a September title?

"Nintendo from February will have every month 1-2 (Nintendo or exlusive release) releases means that they prepared they self like they should"
So, you think a well crafted, well balanced, release Schedule is one where Nintendo gives it all in one year and in the second year you're left with a bigger number of ports, smaller franchises and a system seller - so far, that is - reserved for the latter half?

If you really want to grade Nintendo's strategy, go back a few years and analyse it for what it was, before the Switch a success. Because that's what i'm doing.
And that's why you are saying - again - that i sound like the Switch isn't selling or losing momentum.
I'm not saying neither.
I was surprised to see Switch doing so well (specially in Europe) this time of year. Which is great. But this isn't a race, it's a marathon. And to me, a better scenario would be if Nintendo hadn't invested so heavily last year.
But that was their plan, Switch success or not.

So you don't read what i didn't write, my concern, just like in previous conversations we had, is that Nintendo had means, more than ever before, to do something better and they don't seem to be doing.
Doing better will almost always equal selling more, making more money. This is a business after all.



@Delio: I see that there are already three other people next to me trying to smash common sense into you but unfortunately you still keep singing your same old song. I think it's a lost cause now. All I wanted to leave behind is the mention that even when 2018 may have not as many big hitters like 2017, it's still no problem. The Switch userbase will still grow because these smaller games and ports don't REPLACE big hitters, they rather EXPAND the line up. They go on top of everything that's been released already.

Whenever a new customer buys a Switch, the library already has Zelda and Mario and Mario Kart and Splatoon and whatnot. Along with everything else that is coming. No customer ignores the entire library of 2017 because now is 2018. Reading your comments gives me the impression that you seem to forget this. So, all new games will ADD to the variety that already exists, whether you see it or not.



zorg1000 said:
DélioPT said:

 

Your problem is that you keep wanting to talk about games in isolation when that's not what sells a system. Those games will cut it because there is a steady flow of quality titles from Nintendo & 3rd parties (Japanese, Western & indies) for the rest of the year.

Both of the Wii U ports of 2017 are exceptions to your made up rule, Mario Kart & Pokken both are going to do significantly better than their original releases. The Wii U ports of 2018 could very well do the same, especially DKC which averaged about 5 million before Wii U where it did like 1/3 of that.

Yes, obviously more big games results in potentially bigger sales, that goes without saying but by the logic you are using we would have to say every year is poorly planned because even in a stacked year could be better with a couple more big games.

 

We only have 1.5 months of vgchartz estimates but we also have things like Media Create and Amazon rankings which show no notable drop in sales in the 2nd half of February or early March and with Kirby coming this week there is no reason to expect a drop in the coming weeks.

 

Media Create will have Switch at 650-700k & NPD wil have 900k-1m putting Japan+US at ~1.6 million in Q1. Add in Europe, Canada, Latin America, Australia & Asia and you are looking at ~2.5 million or so which lines right up with their forcast for the quarter of ~2.9 million shipped.

 

The games of Spring/Summer do not need to be massive system sellers, they just need to keep momentum going and considering a handful of those games are going to sell 1-2 million and another handful will sell 300k-1m, a dozen plus small-medium sized hits is enough to maintain momentum.

 

What will push hardware from Sept onward? Smash+Fire Emblem+Yoshi would be enough for the holiday period, thats a 10+ million seller and two ~2 million sellers, along with whatever 3rd parties have planned. Thats just as good or better than last years holiday period.

I'm not saying sales are going to fall, i'm saying sales aren't higher because Nintendo did not have a good plan.
And no, i don't believe those games will do for Switch what the likes of Mario, Zelda, etc. do.
If you believe this, fine. I don't.

I singled out MK because, unlike other ports, that one managed to almost recapture all it's Wii U audience with almost the same number of consoles sold as the Wii U.
That alone shows that Wii U was indeed holding it back.
That game is a true system seller.

Doing better because of a bigger audience isn't that much of a victory.

Why do you think DKC will do great numbers? Wii U wasn't holding it back. Just look at the games close to it (below and above) and you'll see that.

"but by the logic you are using we would have to say every year is poorly planned because even in a stacked year could be better with a couple more big games."
That's not really a fair argument.
We are not discussing a scenario where 2018 is really similar to 2017 and we are left wondering if just one more system seller would make a perceivable difference or not. The gap between 2017 and 2018 is enormous and that leaves more than room for growth.

I can't affirme that sales will or won't drop staring April.
I noticed that with PS4 and that was valid for every single year since release.
If sales don't drop for Switch i'll be surprised, but clearly it won't be because of Kirby. The same that sales have been really good in February and that's not due to a port of Bayonetta and Payday 2.

As an exemple, people speak highly of FE, but did it managed to anything significant for HW?
Short term boost in Japan, Europe and the US. Sales started going down a couple of weeks later.
The second game?
In the US: sales actually fell when it released and kept falling the next couple of weeks; in Europe: same pattern, although on a smaller scale. In Japan: the same pattern.

So, just because a game can sell in the (few) millions, doesn't mean it will do anything relevant for HW. Hence, selling mostly to it's userbase.

I'm not questioning Nintendo's ability to achieve it's goals. I'm only saying that things could be better if they prepared better.
Don't really understand all the fuss around such a claim. 

Smash + FE + Yoshi , is not what i would call a strong holiday line-up.

  

Lonely_Dolphin said:
DélioPT said: 

I'm not saying Switch wasn't a plan. I'm saying that this level of success was not what was expected. Even Nintendo admitted that it didn't expect such a success.
So, yeah, things turned out to be way better than expected.

"be it 200k a week or 2m"
What is the basis for this accusation?
I said that my concerns were based on Nintendo's scheduling. 
With that in mind, i'm looking at how they planned things even before the console came out. So i'll say it again: they didn't plan well.

If you factor in sales, that plan proved to be short lived: a success in 2017, but, so far, bad for 2018.

Actually, if we look at Nintendo's expectations for the console, even there we can see that the plan was not correctly balanced.

My concern is that they could be doing more and they aren't; they could enter 2019 with a way better library and they, from the likes of it, aren't.
And when they pretty much streamlined their SW production, that's a big mistep.

I claimed smaller games have zero effect on sales? Either i didn't explained correctly or you misunderstood me.
To me, smaller games don't sell HW, but that doesn't mean they don't help in creating a library for the console and make it more or less attractive. That is pretty much implied.

But if system sellers can only carry you so far, the same goes for smaller games.
If you look at how many games PS4 has vs Xbox One, by numbers alone you won't find a reason for the difference in HW sales.
A good, diverse library is good, but you need something more if you want to win a marathon and not just the race.

Your first paragraph has nothing to do with anything, unless you're trying to say that because they underestimated themselves their resulting sales don't matter or something nonsensical like that. The basis for my accusation is what you said: "My point is that Switch could have done better, could be doing doing even better if..." and just now: "My concern is that they could be doing more and they aren't." Again pointless because you can always say that no matter how well Nintendo sells or how much Nintendo does, like you are right now despite them selling very well by any standard which proves they're doing enough and planned very well.

"So far bad for 2018," so you seriously think 200k a week is bad!? Like Zorg explained it's safe to assume it's been doing 200k a week up until now, and obviously it's not going to go down now that the consistent stream of games is starting up again, so very safe to assume 2018 will be well up YoY.

Smaller games aren't system sellers but do make a system more appealing, that's pretty contradictory. Plus you clearly don't believe yourself about increasing appeal as otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation and instead you'd recognize that the sheer number and quality of smaller titles are plenty enough to maintain/increase sales momentum.

"Again pointless because you can always say that no matter how well Nintendo sells or how much Nintendo does, like you are right now despite them selling very well by any standard which proves they're doing enough and planned very well."
No, you can't always do better. That exaggeration isn't true.
In this context, there's a big gap between how Nintendo is doing and how they could do if 2018 had been better prepared. Not to mention that all this will influence 2019's sales.

Who said anything about sales?
I was talking about release shcedules and how a better for 2018 could/would have resulted in better sales.

PS4 has been doing great, hasn't it? Even up YoY, right? Did that stop PS4 from droping in sales during the second and most of third semester, like, every year? No.

Why is that contradictory? Just because a game isn't a system seller, doesn't mean it's as if it doesn't exist or so bad that people pretend it doesn't exist.
Not all game libraries have the same appeal or value.
The more [the game library] is made off system sellers, the better. Below that, the less appeal it will have until it reaches a point where, for the majority of gamers, it just doesn't justify buying a console (like Wii U).



It's ok, but it's still only mainly for the first half of the year. Mario Tennis looks pretty good (far improvement from the Wii U version at least), Dark Souls, Hyrule Warriors (never played the Wii U game), Kirby, Octopath, Tropical Freeze. Plus I still need to catch up on older titles and pick up Rocket League, Skyrim, and Payday 2 eventually. Sure, not the most exciting lineup, and plenty of ports, but still plenty of solid games that I'd like to play/replay. I'm covered for awhile.

I expect we'll get some announcements for more significant titles for the holiday season, and hopefully more on Smash and MP4 soon than teasers. Then going into next year especially, once more third parties have had more time to make more original content, I think we'll really see the floodgates open for quality software.



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

DélioPT said:
Miyamotoo said:

What you wrote dont make sense if you look current sales, Switch is still very good despite it had only Bayonetta 1/2 until now, and this year sales will most likly sell more than last year ones.

Games like Bayonetta 1/2, Kirby, Labo, DKTF, Hyrule Warriors, Captain Toad, Octopath traveler, Travis Strikes Again, Mario Aces...are quite different compared to last year games and they are actually expending variate of Switch game offers and they automatically expanding intrest in Switch (espacily with multiplatform ports), sales proves that beacuse Switch is still seling very good.

Its hard to have something huge evre quarter, but Labo have potential to be huge for 2nd quarter and Smash Bros is most likely 3rd quarter game (September release).

Fact that Nintendo from February will have every month 1-2 (Nintendo or exlusive release) releases means that they prepared they self like they should to continue momentum without any droughts. You sound like Switch is not selling and like its loosing momentum, but sales proves that you are wrong and you dont see that.

Your idea of variety is: any kind of variety = great variety.
The games you mentioned are mostly ports, smaller franchises and unproven ones like Octopath and Labo.
When people say they want variety, it's implied they want the best possible scenario. And companies do strive to offer the best kind of variety. Sometimes they achieve that, sometimes they don't.

The first half does not offer the best type of variety it could offer. Plain and simple.
Just to give an exemple, a scenario where instead of ports and more ports, we had more multiplats, that would be a better type of variety.

Personally, i don't hold much faith on Labo for the long term.
Honestly, i think it's going the way of the amiibo: something really cool to have at first, but then it becomes obvious that, in the case of Labo, all time and money spent 
on it doesn't equal a great experience.
Still, i could be dead wrong.

Just curious, why do you assume Smash is a September title?

"Nintendo from February will have every month 1-2 (Nintendo or exlusive release) releases means that they prepared they self like they should"
So, you think a well crafted, well balanced, release Schedule is one where Nintendo gives it all in one year and in the second year you're left with a bigger number of ports, smaller franchises and a system seller - so far, that is - reserved for the latter half?

If you really want to grade Nintendo's strategy, go back a few years and analyse it for what it was, before the Switch a success. Because that's what i'm doing.
And that's why you are saying - again - that i sound like the Switch isn't selling or losing momentum.
I'm not saying neither.
I was surprised to see Switch doing so well (specially in Europe) this time of year. Which is great. But this isn't a race, it's a marathon. And to me, a better scenario would be if Nintendo hadn't invested so heavily last year.
But that was their plan, Switch success or not.

So you don't read what i didn't write, my concern, just like in previous conversations we had, is that Nintendo had means, more than ever before, to do something better and they don't seem to be doing.
Doing better will almost always equal selling more, making more money. This is a business after all.

I never said great variaty, buy I dont see how you can spin expended variate of Switch game offers. Fact that they are ports dont change nothing, sales of Switch sales and sales of alredy released ports on Switch proves that, but you keep ignoring that. No, when people say variety not best possible scenario, you are one that pushing narative that somehow Switch this year needs to have best possible scenario, when its obvious it dont need.

You dont hold faith about anuthing Switch related, you had pessimism and negativity about Switch even before Switch launch, and you continue with you pessimism and negativity even after Switch had great sales and it become clear it will be succees, now Switch is keep momentum even it had from Nintendo 1st party or exclusive games only Bayonetta 1/2. And worst thing is that you will keep with your pessimism and negativity about Switch in few years and nothing can change your mind. So when you saying you dont hold much faith on Labo for the long term that dont mean nothing, and also Labo doesnt need to be long term succees, it can only be one year hit.

Smash Bros will most likly be September title beacuse Nintendo in September is launching paid online, and they will definatly have some big online game with launch of paid online, and Smash fits perfectly.

Yes it's marathon, and Nintendo continue to pressing right notes with Switch, Switch great sales last year, and continuity momentum currently proves that they have good and successful strategy for Switch. But offcorse you fail to see that. And yes, evre console could sell better with some other circumantes that dont go only for Switch, so saying that would sell even better with bigger games could be said for PS4 also.

I read what you wrote, but you are one that keep ignoring clear facts, Switch dont need huge game evre quarter, or brand new games to keep selling great. Switch keep selling great. Now again you sound like Switch is not selling great, and that sales actualy after weak January-February in terms of games, other games can be only stronger, and you again fail to see that. :D