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Forums - General Discussion - On "ranking" users and people by preference

KLXVER said:
The user tournaments on here are a bit weird tbh. I mean if you were with a bunch of your friends, would you ever start ranking them? Like "Tom you are my best friend. Jim you are my second best friend." etc... Its just a bit weird to me.

Never heard of beauty contests?



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

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kirby007 said:
KLXVER said:
The user tournaments on here are a bit weird tbh. I mean if you were with a bunch of your friends, would you ever start ranking them? Like "Tom you are my best friend. Jim you are my second best friend." etc... Its just a bit weird to me.

Never heard of beauty contests?

I have...whats your point?



KLXVER said:
kirby007 said:

Never heard of beauty contests?

I have...whats your point?

Same concept which is generally accepted



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

kirby007 said:
KLXVER said:

I have...whats your point?

Same concept which is generally accepted

Its something people sign up for. They are there to be judged.



PwerlvlAmy said:
Farsala said:

I'm envious.  Though that's probably not good if you are at the top of your own hit list :O.

Self confidence. Those who do not have themselves at the top of their list must be sad and lack self esteem

 

always been #1 on your list!

Depends on what it is about, besides don't most parents usually have their kids on the number one spot.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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KLXVER said:
kirby007 said:

Same concept which is generally accepted

Its something people sign up for. They are there to be judged.

Well you could just aswell opt out



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

kirby007 said:
KLXVER said:

Its something people sign up for. They are there to be judged.

Well you could just aswell opt out

I know. I don't mind people doing it. I just find it a bit weird.



Teeqoz said:
Kaneman! said:

Wanted to write this, but seems like I'm not the only one with that opinion.

Essentially, you needn't write a list as you already have a hierarchy in your head.

That being said, I try not to write down subjective lists about people at all. I like stats though, and numerically ordered lists like rankings and sports results are my favourite.

I also like stats (probably one of the biggest subconcious reasons I joined this site), so I'll go ahead and share some cool things with you (this is a total nerd moment for me, sorry):

(The charts are mine, but I sourced the numbers from the EIA)

Haha, as you can see, my most recent project has been about electricity production and renewables in particular. I've thought about making a thread with this, might get around to it once complete numbers for 2017 are available (which should be on monday!). Again, sorry about this, just had a total nerd-down here

It's actually pretty sad to see that the energy transition at the current rate isn't going to make a real difference until 2050. What is especially troublesome is the trend you see in European countries that renewable energy will first replace nuclear energy and Coal, Oil, Gas and other fossil fuels will remain. So they will not be replaced for decades. Oh well at least gas is replacing coals, so that's a win. Anyway at the current rate 4 degrees climate change due to our CO2 emission instead of 2 is more likely. Especially since the EROI for all fossil fuels is on decline.

The only way the energytransition can really take off is when people start to really care and small energy projects to really take off. In Germany this approach is pretty successful. It's just a shame they close down nuclear plants, which are relatively clean instead of coal. In my country it's even worse since the grams of carbon per kW/h is actually rising.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Kaneman! said:
Teeqoz said:

Haha, as you can see, my most recent project has been about electricity production and renewables in particular. I've thought about making a thread with this, might get around to it once complete numbers for 2017 are available (which should be on monday!). Again, sorry about this, just had a total nerd-down here

Impressive!

Even with the exponential growth of the renewable sources, it still has ways to go, though. I'll be looking forward to that thread.

Yeah, even in 2017, Solar still only accounts for a bit more than 1% of US annual electricity production. That's why I didn't include it in the first chart - it's still inconsequential to the broader picture, it would be such a thin line that you'd brely notice it. It is probably one of, if not the most important energy source for the future though. (Until we figure out fusion)

Qwark said:

It's actually pretty sad to see that the energy transition at the current rate isn't going to make a real difference until 2050. What is especially troublesome is the trend you see in European countries that renewable energy will first replace nuclear energy and Coal, Oil, Gas and other fossil fuels will remain. So they will not be replaced for decades. Oh well at least gas is replacing coals, so that's a win. Anyway at the current rate 4 degrees climate change due to our CO2 emission instead of 2 is more likely. Especially since the EROI for all fossil fuels is on decline.

The only way the energy transition can really take off is when people start to really care and small energy projects to really take off. In Germany this approach is pretty successful. It's just a shame they close down nuclear plants, which are relatively clean instead of coal. In my country it's even worse since the grams of carbon per kW/h is actually rising.

It really depends on what you mean by making a real difference. Will we achieve the 2 degree goal? Almost certainly not. But changes in the energy portfolio have made very noticeable contributions. If you look at my first chart, perhaps the most substantial trend is no the growth of renewables - but that phasing out of coal in favor of natural gas. Natural gas has about half the CO2 emissions per unit of energy compared to coal, and is also much better for air quality because it doesn't release dangerous areosols into the air.

Nuclear has gotten an unfairly bad rep, but I think changing that is a lost cause with regards to having nuclear replacing large amounts of coal towards 2050.

Also, if you look at the US, the trend points towards nuclear being pretty constant while fossil fuels declin (especially coal, as it's under attack from both natural gas and renewables). In Europe, there have been moderate declines in both nuclear and coal, but more than anything, renewbles have been the source for new, additional capacity, and hasn't really been replacing already existing capacity to a large degree.....yet.

https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/indicators/overview-of-the-electricity-production-1/assessment

I think the outlook is very positive. While there will be some minor hiccups in the transition (like Trump wanting coal back in the US - not gonna happen BTW), the trend is unstoppable, and we'll get there eventually.

I forgot to mention, we might be able to remain within 2 degrees with carbon capture.



Teeqoz
Qwark said:

It's actually pretty sad to see that the energy transition at the current rate isn't going to make a real difference until 2050. What is especially troublesome is the trend you see in European countries that renewable energy will first replace nuclear energy and Coal, Oil, Gas and other fossil fuels will remain. So they will not be replaced for decades. Oh well at least gas is replacing coals, so that's a win. Anyway at the current rate 4 degrees climate change due to our CO2 emission instead of 2 is more likely. Especially since the EROI for all fossil fuels is on decline.

The only way the energy transition can really take off is when people start to really care and small energy projects to really take off. In Germany this approach is pretty successful. It's just a shame they close down nuclear plants, which are relatively clean instead of coal. In my country it's even worse since the grams of carbon per kW/h is actually rising.

It really depends on what you mean by making a real difference. Will we achieve the 2 degree goal? Almost certainly not. But changes in the energy portfolio have made very noticeable contributions. If you look at my first chart, perhaps the most substantial trend is no the growth of renewables - but that phasing out of coal in favor of natural gas. Natural gas has about half the CO2 emissions per unit of energy compared to coal, and is also much better for air quality because it doesn't release dangerous areosols into the air.

Nuclear has gotten an unfairly bad rep, but I think changing that is a lost cause with regards to having nuclear replacing large amounts of coal towards 2050.

Also, if you look at the US, the trend points towards nuclear being pretty constant while fossil fuels declin (especially coal, as it's under attack from both natural gas and renewables). In Europe, there have been moderate declines in both nuclear and coal, but more than anything, renewbles have been the source for new, additional capacity, and hasn't really been replacing already existing capacity to a large degree.....yet.

https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/indicators/overview-of-the-electricity-production-1/assessment

I think the outlook is very positive. While there will be some minor hiccups in the transition (like Trump wanting coal back in the US - not gonna happen BTW), the trend is unstoppable, and we'll get there eventually.

I forgot to mention, we might be able to remain within 2 degrees with carbon capture.

Replacing coal with gas is a win, because you also don't have to get rid of the poisonous ashes. What people often forget though is that gas is getting harder and harder to win. The same goes for oil. In the 60s the 'energy return of investment rate' (EROI)of oil was over 100. These days imported oil from the middle east has an EROI of 30 and domestic US oil is even lower than that. This graph shows the efficiency of using and winning fossil fuels in Canada.

Now imagine how low the EROI is in 2030, at that time 600 grams of carbon dioxide will be emitted by producing 1kWh electricity instead of 450. Still a bit better as coal these days, but the gap will become closer. The gap between renewables and fossil fuels will only widen. When it comes to grams carbon emitted per kWh. 

In this graph and my apologies it's in Dutch we can see the carbon emission in Germany sole caused by generating electricity. The red line displays the amount of renewable energy being produced. However due to Germany is policy to wanting to phase out nuclear faster than coal and the diminishing returns of fossil fuels. The actual carbon emission caused by generating electricity has only seen a slight decrease the last decade. Even though renewables really took off in Germany.

So what I mean by making a difference is the actual carbon emission caused by generating electricity or even better Energy as a whole to significantly decrease. In my country The Netherlands our grams carbon emissions per generated kWh is actually rising instead of decreasing. So that's why I think that even though renewable energy is on the rise it needs to rise faster if we want to decrease our carbon footprint.

 

So what is my primary concern is wether renewable sources can keep up and decreade carbon emission at the current rate if we include a slighty growing demand for energy, decreasing EROI and the increasing carbon emission per kWh fossil energy. Especially when countries like Germany are primarily targeting nuclear, because that's more popular for the public while burning brown coal and natural gas largely get a free pass.

Because there isn't an effective way to store renewable energy aside from electrohydroplants yet. And even when power to (hydrogen) gas becomes somewhat efficiënt it would have a negatively influence on efficiency. Yet lacking a method to converse or store renewable energy could destabilise the electrical grid.

In the Netherlands (3% actual renewable energy, burning imported biomass from Canada and incinerating waste don't count) on hot summer days with lots of wind, we actually stop wind turbines to prevent destabilisation of the national electricity grid. In Germany you could get a negative price also causing wind turbines to stop producing energy because it literally costs money. So all of the above combined is why I think Europe needs to put a lot more effort in the energy transition. Or as you said should rely way more on carbon storage, which is what the Netherlands are going to do. Prevent 2 or 3% carbon emission with renewable energy and more than 35% by storing Carbon under the Sea before 2030 to hit the European target. Although I doubt we are going to do that, since we also agreed to produce 14% of our energy sustainably in 2020.

Last edited by Qwark - on 24 February 2018

Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar