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Forums - Politics Discussion - Swedish PM Mulls Using Army To End "No-Go Zones"

SamuelRSmith on 18 January 2018
Kristof81 said:
Errorist76 said:
How “bad” is the murder rate compared to the U.S....?! Just want to know, since the OP decided to use Trump rhetoric.

Per 100,000 inhabitants. Sweden: 1.2, USA: 4.9, Global average: 6.2

And in the USA, much like in Sweden, most of the murders are found in no-go zones.

Even when you go into these cities, the crime will be concentrated into specific regions of the city, and within those regions, blocks.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/pa/philadelphia/crime for example, much of its crime is right in the center.



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palou on 18 January 2018
SamuelRSmith said:
Kristof81 said:

Per 100,000 inhabitants. Sweden: 1.2, USA: 4.9, Global average: 6.2

And in the USA, much like in Sweden, most of the murders are found in no-go zones.

Even when you go into these cities, the crime will be concentrated into specific regions of the city, and within those regions, blocks.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/pa/philadelphia/crime for example, much of its crime is right in the center.

Malmö, a « bad » swedish city, has a murder rate of 3.8

 

Yes, that’s high for Sweden. That still doesn’t mean that it’s accurate to call it dangerous.



Bet with PeH: 

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I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

SamuelRSmith on 18 January 2018
palou said:
SamuelRSmith said:

So, which were the areas that were included in the completely made up "no go zones", and which are the areas that apparently have live grenades lying around the streets, and gang warfare?

The fact that crime rates across the country are low internationally speaking isn't relevant to the discussion at hand, and actually enhances the notion of a "no go zone". If I have a choice to live/work/play in a whole country that's incredibly safe, or restrict myself to a couple neighbourhoods where crime is exceptionally high, the latter becomes and even stronger "no go zone".

The thing is, even WITHIN the most dangerous areas of the most dangerous cities, homicide is comparatively extremely low to many american cities( St-louis, detroit, or even DC.)

 

It’s called a bad neighborhood. Why invent new terminology just for Sweden?

That's actually the point I made in the post just above this one. Even in the US, crime is concentrated to a handful of blocks in most cities.

The reason why I used "no go zone" is because many people refuse to acknowledge there's an issue. Frankly, I wouldn't use it if it wasn't for how quickly people jump on it. Bad neighborhoods ARE no go zones, and refusing to acknowledge their existence for the sake of politics doesn't solve anything.



Qwark on 18 January 2018
palou said:
SamuelRSmith said:

So, which were the areas that were included in the completely made up "no go zones", and which are the areas that apparently have live grenades lying around the streets, and gang warfare?

The fact that crime rates across the country are low internationally speaking isn't relevant to the discussion at hand, and actually enhances the notion of a "no go zone". If I have a choice to live/work/play in a whole country that's incredibly safe, or restrict myself to a couple neighbourhoods where crime is exceptionally high, the latter becomes and even stronger "no go zone".

The thing is, even WITHIN the most dangerous areas of the most dangerous cities, homicide is comparatively extremely low to many american cities( St-louis, detroit, or even DC.)

 

It’s called a bad neighborhood. Why invent new terminology just for Sweden?

 

How many cases of live grenades on the streets are there really, now? 

Because Sweden has different standards when it comes to murder than the US. So a slight increase compared to average of the rest of the EU is a pretty big deal. Anyway if that small increase in the national murder rate by 100.000 civilians all take place in a few very concentrated areas you could call them no go zones for EU standards.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Qwark on 18 January 2018
palou said:
SamuelRSmith said:

And in the USA, much like in Sweden, most of the murders are found in no-go zones.

Even when you go into these cities, the crime will be concentrated into specific regions of the city, and within those regions, blocks.

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/pa/philadelphia/crime for example, much of its crime is right in the center.

Malmö, a « bad » swedish city, has a murder rate of 3.8

 

Yes, that’s high for Sweden. That still doesn’t mean that it’s accurate to call it dangerous.

It's more than three times as dangerous as the rest of the country or the EU average. It's all relative and 3.8 is considered good in one place in the world and dangerous in another it's all relative and the USA isn't the standard and by itself pretty dangerous.



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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S.Peelman on 18 January 2018
Kristof81 said:
Errorist76 said:

Thank you. Sorry for being lazy.

That's fine. I was curious myself. 

Sweden's homicide rate is pretty average by EU standards (1.1). For contrast, Norway's rate is 0.6, but Finland's 1.6. 

And Sweden conveniently lies right in between those so there's a nice linear increase.



palou on 18 January 2018
Qwark said:
palou said:

Malmö, a « bad » swedish city, has a murder rate of 3.8

 

Yes, that’s high for Sweden. That still doesn’t mean that it’s accurate to call it dangerous.

It's more than three times as dangerous as the rest of the country or the EU average. It's all relative and 3.8 is considered good in one place in the world and dangerous in another it's all relative and the USA isn't the standard and by itself pretty dangerous.

The problem is that the notion was pushed by american media, giving an impression to an american audience that Sweden is b3coming dangerous, a destination they should avoid (which is absolutely ridiculous). 



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

SamuelRSmith on 18 January 2018
palou said:

The problem is that the notion was pushed by american media, giving an impression to an american audience that Sweden is b3coming dangerous, a destination they should avoid (which is absolutely ridiculous). 

The American media, for the most part, do not push that message.

Even the Reuters article I posted, which was literally talking about the Swedish PM discussing deploying military forces in high crime areas, spent a large portion of the article reminding everybody how safe Sweden is.



Flilix on 18 January 2018
SamuelRSmith said:
palou said:

The thing is, even WITHIN the most dangerous areas of the most dangerous cities, homicide is comparatively extremely low to many american cities( St-louis, detroit, or even DC.)

 

It’s called a bad neighborhood. Why invent new terminology just for Sweden?

That's actually the point I made in the post just above this one. Even in the US, crime is concentrated to a handful of blocks in most cities.

The reason why I used "no go zone" is because many people refuse to acknowledge there's an issue. Frankly, I wouldn't use it if it wasn't for how quickly people jump on it. Bad neighborhoods ARE no go zones, and refusing to acknowledge their existence for the sake of politics doesn't solve anything.

'No go zone' sounds like everyone should avoid it because you would immediately be attacked when you go there. But such places simply don't exist in Europe.



numberwang on 18 January 2018

There is more to crime than murder-rate: robbing, mugging, intimidation, rape, grenades, torching synagogues etc.

Nobody was murdered, therefore it is safe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8OY_KUNqQ4