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Forums - Nintendo - Aonuma feels that Breath of the Wild’s freedom needs to be maintained in future Zelda games

MTZehvor said:
curl-6 said:

The beauty of Botw is that the play gets to decide how hard it is; you can take the time to turn your character into a demigod if you're like me and prefer a more leisurely experience, or you can skip the Divine Beasts and just focus on getting the Master Sword and taking the fight to Ganon as early as possible.

I do think that helps out on second playthroughs, although I think that kind of self-balancing already exists in past Zelda games where you can simply make things more challenging by refusing to pick up heart containers, for instance. On a first playthrough, however, I don't think that kind of reasoning works out because it assumes that players will know what is coming. I certainly could have made the second half of the game far more challenging for me if I had just gone straight from Thunderblight to Calamity, but at the time I had no way of knowing that there was such a significant drop in difficulty coming. Given the challenge that the first half of the game had presented me with, I didn't really have any reason to think that things were suddenly going to get much easier. 

I don't mind Zelda taking a more RPG like approach and letting players who want to spend the time necessary to turn their character into a "demigod." If you want to spend the time going around Hyrule and solving every shrine, more power to you. At the same time, I don't think I'm ok with just playing through what I'd refer to as the "main story" making players essentially unkillable, because at that point I'm basically having to cut myself out of a significant portion of the game's narrative just to ensure that the title keeps up a consistent challenge. If people want to play more to reduce the difficulty for themselves, then that's great, but I don't feel like I should be forced to skip out on a major part of a game just so the game doesn't essentially play itself for me.

You can still make it hard for yourself by opting out of meals the same way you'd opt out of heart containers, while players like me would still have the choice to bolster ourselves with dozens of dishes so we don't have to go through the frustration of dying. Alternatively, you could not upgrade your armour, or use the starting clothes. 

Personally, I didn't find there was a "significant drop in difficulty" in final act at all.



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curl-6 said:

You can still make it hard for yourself by opting out of meals the same way you'd opt out of heart containers, while players like me would still have the choice to bolster ourselves with dozens of dishes so we don't have to go through the frustration of dying. Alternatively, you could not upgrade your armour, or use the starting clothes. 

Personally, I didn't find there was a "significant drop in difficulty" in final act at all.

Again, that goes back to the issue of forcing the player to balance the game for themselves. If the previous segment of the game has been challenging, then there's no reason for the player to think that they should take additional steps to boost the difficulty level. If the last boss I fought killed me several times, then I'm not going to walk into the next fight expecting a boss so easy that I should intentionally handicap myself to make it a challenge. And if the bosses have been all over the place, then, well, I have no idea how to approach it. Personally, I would argue this is stuff that a player shouldn't have to worry about, at least on their first playthrough. The onus should be on the developers to create a consistently challenging experience; it shouldn't be up to the players to essentially balance the game for themselves because the difficulty curve wobbles all over the place. The responsibility for the player should be to prepare for a fight as well as they possibly can, and the developer's task is to create a fight that effectively challenges the player's preparedness and skill. When you place the responsibility for balancing the game on the player, it becomes an imperfect game of hit or miss, because the player has imperfect information about the enemies coming up. They don't know what they'll be going up against, and thus their ability to fine tune a challenge is severely hampered on an initial playthrough.

As for the significant drop in difficulty, I can't say a lot objectively there, since difficulty is, well, subjective. However, I can say that I know quite a few people that have played Breath of the Wild, and based on past conversations, I'm reasonably confident that if I asked, every single one of them would say that Thunderblight is by far a more difficult boss than Fireblight, Windblight, or Calamity (I ran it by 5 people quickly before posting this, and none of them disagreed). I think that, at the very least, should say something about a notable drop in the difficulty of bosses, and given that bosses are usually the major tests of skill in video games that include them, I don't think it's a stretch to say that there was a noticeable drop for most people I know. 



MTZehvor said:
curl-6 said:

You can still make it hard for yourself by opting out of meals the same way you'd opt out of heart containers, while players like me would still have the choice to bolster ourselves with dozens of dishes so we don't have to go through the frustration of dying. Alternatively, you could not upgrade your armour, or use the starting clothes. 

Personally, I didn't find there was a "significant drop in difficulty" in final act at all.

Again, that goes back to the issue of forcing the player to balance the game for themselves. If the previous segment of the game has been challenging, then there's no reason for the player to think that they should take additional steps to boost the difficulty level. If the last boss I fought killed me several times, then I'm not going to walk into the next fight expecting a boss so easy that I should intentionally handicap myself to make it a challenge. And if the bosses have been all over the place, then, well, I have no idea how to approach it. Personally, I would argue this is stuff that a player shouldn't have to worry about, at least on their first playthrough. The onus should be on the developers to create a consistently challenging experience; it shouldn't be up to the players to essentially balance the game for themselves because the difficulty curve wobbles all over the place. The responsibility for the player should be to prepare for a fight as well as they possibly can, and the developer's task is to create a fight that effectively challenges the player's preparedness and skill. When you place the responsibility for balancing the game on the player, it becomes an imperfect game of hit or miss, because the player has imperfect information about the enemies coming up. They don't know what they'll be going up against, and thus their ability to fine tune a challenge is severely hampered on an initial playthrough.

As for the significant drop in difficulty, I can't say a lot objectively there, since difficulty is, well, subjective. However, I can say that I know quite a few people that have played Breath of the Wild, and based on past conversations, I'm reasonably confident that if I asked, every single one of them would say that Thunderblight is by far a more difficult boss than Fireblight, Windblight, or Calamity (I ran it by 5 people quickly before posting this, and none of them disagreed). I think that, at the very least, should say something about a notable drop in the difficulty of bosses, and given that bosses are usually the major tests of skill in video games that include them, I don't think it's a stretch to say that there was a noticeable drop for most people I know. 

Aside from Thunderblight, I found the entirety of the rest of the experience to be very well balanced, to the point where Thunderblight was simply an isolated blip on the radar; a frustrating one for sure, but nothing game breaking.

Naturally, part of a game with this much freedom is that the player decides to an extent how hard it is simply by choosing if/when they feel confident in going for field bosses like Lynels or Hyrule Castle itself, but I wouldn't say that's "forcing the player to balance the game", simply offering different ways to play and letting the player choose which suits them best. Kind of like how a lot of action games let you approach situations with stealth or by running in guns blazing.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 02 January 2018

contestgamer said:
Miyamotoo said:

I dont talk about your opinion, but about fact that Zelda BotW is one of best critically acclaimed games ever, not just critically well-received game like you wrote.

ok, and whats your point? Why should anyone care? You're making no sense.

My point is clear, again, fact is that Zelda BotW is one of best critically acclaimed games ever, not just critically well-received game like he wrote. We had debate and debate came to that point, how that has anything with you!?

 

curl-6 said:
Miyamotoo said:

I dont talk about your opinion, but about fact that Zelda BotW is one of best critically acclaimed games ever, not just critically well-received game like you wrote.

Dude, enough. Leave him alone. He never said it wasn't well received or acclaimed, he is clearly aware that it is. You spamming over and over again how well reviewed it is serves no purpose.


I never said that he didnt said that game is well received just that there is difference between just well received and between one of best critically acclaimed games ever.



Veknoid_Outcast said:
I mean, if you make a game that 1) scores a 97 on aggregate scoring sites and finishes as the 5th best reviewed game of all time; 2) sells five million plus copies, and is probably on its way to topping the previous best-sellers in the series; and 3) wins the plurality of GOTY awards, then it’s probably a good idea to stay the course.

great post.

 

Zelda BOTW was amazing. A once in a generation type game. Nintendo just need to make another one, but change up the progression system and such. 

BOTW in a Majiora's Mask Land!!! could be amazing.



End of 2009 Predictions (Set, January 1st 2009)

Wii- 72 million   3rd Year Peak, better slate of releases

360- 37 million   Should trend down slightly after 3rd year peak

PS3- 29 million  Sales should pick up next year, 3rd year peak and price cut

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Miyamotoo said: 
curl-6 said:

Dude, enough. Leave him alone. He never said it wasn't well received or acclaimed, he is clearly aware that it is. You spamming over and over again how well reviewed it is serves no purpose.

I never said that he didnt said that game is well received just that there is difference between just well received and between one of best critically acclaimed games ever.

That's irrelevant though. He clearly knows, and he clearly doesn't care.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 02 January 2018

curl-6 said:
Miyamotoo said: 

I never said that he didnt said that game is well received just that there is difference between just well received and between one of best critically acclaimed games ever.

That's irrelevant though. He clearly knows, and he clearly doesn't care.

That's fact, if that is relevant or not that's not point. Maybe he knows maybe he dont knows that, but his post clearly don't point that he knows that, and I was clear about my point. If he dont care he can just stop reply to me.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 02 January 2018

Miyamotoo said:
curl-6 said:

That's irrelevant though. He clearly knows, and he clearly doesn't care.

That's fact, if that is relevant or not that's not point. Maybe he knows maybe he dont knows that, but his post clearly don't point that he knows that, and I was clear about my point. If he dont care he can just stop reply to me.

Still I think you should let it go. Whether he/she knows its critically acclaimed or not is irrelevant. He/she (I'm saying this because I don't know the person) clearly doesn't care for the critical acclaim, whether its one of the highest acclaimed games ever or well-received. It's not gonna change his/her opinion. Trying to correct someone is gonna be irritating more than anything to the person, especially if its something like this. He/she doesn't like the game? Ok, then there's no problem in that, its his or her opinion.



Jumpin said: 


The big problem I had with the franchise is, while games like Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask were interesting for what they were - they didn't really progress the franchise

I'm not sure how much I'd say that about Majora's Mask. I played Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask for the first time a few weeks before I got my copy of BOTW. My experience is OoT, MM, WW, ALBW, and BOTW. While BOTW is definitely the most significant change and evolution from Ocarina of Time, that's only for a few reasons. First of all, Majora's Mask wouldn't have been a good game to constantly imitate, it's very unique and has it's own personality. Second, it's on the same engine as a previous game and not on a new engine. Third, it has probably the best new features out of the Zelda games I've played, and it has two(arguably three) different main features that completely  change how you play.

I guess Majora's Mask isn't as innovative as BOTW, and it's not really a "new step" for the franchise. But it's such a big side step that it might as well be considered just as unique as BOTW, it's so different and so influential and honestly when you take all that into account it not being the new direction for the series is kind of null and void because making every Zelda like Majora's Mask doesn't make sense in the first place. Basically, it's almost an unfair comparison because BOTW's new step is a blank canvas to make endless sequels with. It's a basic foundation. Majora's Mask is a very specific work and it can't be replicated and shouldn't be. 



curl-6 said:

Aside from Thunderblight, I found the entirety of the rest of the experience to be very well balanced, to the point where Thunderblight was simply an isolated blip on the radar; a frustrating one for sure, but nothing game breaking.

All I can really say then is that my experience differs from yours. I found Thunderblight to be one of many notable swings of the difficulty pendulum from an incredibly easy game to a fairly challenging one, with other swings including the first Lynel encounter, Eventide Island, and around the first hour or so of the game, and I would've preferred a more consistent experience from a difficulty standpoint that I think would've been more likely to come with a greater degree of structure.