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Forums - Movies & TV - The Marvelous Marvel Rewatch (Now Playing: Avengers: Infinity War)

 

Best MCU sub-series?

Iron Man 1 3.03%
 
Thor 1 3.03%
 
Captain America 12 36.36%
 
The Avengers 9 27.27%
 
Guardians of the Galaxy 10 30.30%
 
Total:33

I know everyone has a packed weekend with both Captain America: Civil War and Doctor Strange, so of course I will add to it! Luke Cage premiered between these two films and was another strong series from the Netflix Marvel mini-universe. I’ll try and find some time to rewatch this pilot as well and drop some thoughts. Hope everyone is enjoying their holiday weekend. Gut check time, people!



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Ant-Man - 5/10

Still really enjoyed this movie, but as far as Marvel goes it's mediocre, inconsequential, and light. That's not a bad thing, but it does definitely feel like it belongs in phase 1 instead of the end of phase 2. It's funny, I love the characters (Seriously, that's one ongoing theme in Marvel, I think the characters are all VERY well handled, especially the heroes).

I did love this movie, but there's literally only one movie in the entire MCU I didn't love and that was Hulk.

I commend this movie for being unique and fun, but it's got the worst villain and a lot of physics problems that I couldn't stop thinking about as well as a bunch of little things that felt out of place. Again, I don't think it's a bad movie and I still give it an 8.0 out of 10 on my global scale (Anything 8 and above is outstanding), but for the sake of Marvel, I'm gonna have to go with a 5. I liked it a bit less than the Thor or Iron Man movies, but not low enough to have it at a 4/10.

Disposable, but fun. Serves as a great Palate Cleanser between a streak of three of the best (Winter Soldier, Guardians 1, and Age of Ultron) and an impressive streak of 6 more (Civil War, Doctor Strange, Guardians 2, Spiderman, Thor 3, and Black Panther). This truly is a golden age of cinema!

Global Rankings:

9.5 Avengers: Age of Ultron
9.5 The Avengers
9.4 Guardians of the Galaxy
9.4 Captain America: The Winter Soldier
9.3 Black Panther
9.2 Captain America: The First Avenger
9.1 Iron Man 3
9.0 Iron Man
8.9 Iron Man 2
8.7 Thor: The Dark World
8.3 Thor
8.0 Ant-Man
6.1 The Incredible Hulk



Captain America 2: 9/10
This is a really solid movie. My only real complaint with it is that it looks a bit ugly. The Russo brothers shot this movie on a digital camera and didn't bother to color correct it. The gray aesthetic suits the tone of the movie, but is kind of an eyesore for the 2 hours I'm watching it. I have some other nitpicks, but they're not that big of a deal. This follows in the footsteps of the Dark Knight in the sense that a lot of the action is done practically. There is not a lot of CGI in this movie and whatever CGI is present is blended well with the movie. All the performances are great. Robert Redford's character was a bit bland, but he did a great job with the role. I loved the scene where he used the tool to burn through someone's sternum. The subplot of Steve trying to develop to the complexities of the modern world is great and is consistent throughout the movie. The tone is consistent and the movie doesn't stop the plot to throw in random jokes which I appreciated. The movie has a brisk pace and everything feels appropriate. Marvel's best in my opinion.
GOTG: 8/10
This is a gorgeous movie. Everything feels alive and looks exotic. The color grading is done really well and the movie has great cinematography. The special effects never felt abundant or overwhelming. The soundtrack is fantastic and grabs a great selection of songs from the 70s. Pretty much every joke made me at least chuckle. The characters are all sympathetic and are all distinct from each other. They managed to blend Rocket and Groot incredibly well into the movie and make them look as convincing as possible. All of the performances are great. There aren't too many subplots that drown the audience with information they don't care about. A majority of this movie is done very well, but the villain is just another stock, generic Marvel villain. While Cap 2 had Bucky, who had a personal connection to Steve, Ronan is just some dude who has to kill the Guardians. I did not understand what his motivation was and I wasn't intimidated by him as much as the movie wanted me to be. The movie realizes this and kills him off in an anticlimactic, albeit funny ending. I have my problems with it, but this is still a really great movie.
Avengers 2: 4/10
This movie feels way too long and way too crowded. It has to set up so many plotlines and so many characters that I'm just not able to care about them. This movie is an instance of the filmmakers using too much CGI. The ending battle uses so much CGI, that everything starts to look fake and lacks any weight. This movie also looks incredibly ugly and it does not complement the tone of the movie at all. Every plot point feels discombobulated and so disconnected that it feels like I'm watching Marvel burn through 8 movies' worth of material. Elements of this movie work well, but its just not put in a cohesive movie.
Ant Man: 5/10
This is the most mediocre movie I have ever seen. Some of the jokes are funny, while some are not. The action looks cool but feels incredibly sterile. The CGI is decent, but is not utilized to full effect. The plot is really generic. The characters are entertaining, but they're not placed in a movie worth their entertainment. The movie looks flat and lacks any style. It just meanders for its runtime and there isn't an incredibly memorable scene. It is competent, but I will never watch it again.



 

 

I liked Captain America: Civil War when I first saw it. I didn’t love it. The plot left me somewhat ambivalent. I went in with high expectations. I was certainly excited for it. I had skipped Ant-Man in theaters but there was no way coming off Winter Soldier (which I loved) that I was going to miss my now favorite Avenger’s potentially last standalone film. Not to mention the epic storyline that was being adapted. This could have been what Age of Ultron wasn’t. And for the most part it succeeded. But I didn’t love it the way everyone else was gushing over it. I’m glad I’m getting this chance now to rewatch and see where I fall. See you on the other side!



And I just got through Civil War, and I'm glad to have it in my top tier as well.

10/10 on the marvel scale.

Pretty much everything about it is on point. I don't want to get too into it because there's just so much to go through, but here are some high points:

Opening action scene is lengthy and sets everything in motion. It has great action and character beats. In fact, all of act one is a great way to introduce the characters, their motivations, and their reasoning behind why they end up doing what they do.

The chase scene through Bucharest was so awesome to me, I liked it almost as much as the Airport scene.

Black Panther's introduction served as an origin story, which is also quite awesome. No complaints there.

Best spider man, easily. I mean, I loved the Tobey Maguire movies, but I think Tom Holland is pitch perfect.

The Winter Soldier escape was also quite amazing, lots of great character work there as well. Seriously, I could go on and on about the character work in these films.

I actually really liked Zemo, which I know is an unpopular opinion. Sure, his plan was all over the place and needlessly complicated, but I tend to imagine he was improvising more than he was sticking to a plan. I mean, heroes can do that, why can't villains? Plus he gave a more visceral feel to the movie, given that the central conflict was more personal despite much of the narrative being focused on worldwide politics.

Much like The Winter Soldier, the movie handled espionage/politics well without being too overt about it. This made it special and unique with poignant themes that will never not be timely.

The final fight in Siberia was also another high point in the whole endeavor. Such a deeply affecting, violent scene fueled by emotion. This is great filmmaking.

Honestly, I love how well the movie balanced levity with soul. There are some truly heart wrenching moments throughout that you feel deep in your gut, but the movie doesn't fail to be funny. There are jokes, but there's also a lot of weight applied to the events of the film.

I honestly can't think of any overt issues with the film. I mean, it's not perfect, but as I sit here trying to think up some flaws so I don't sound like a fangirl, I can't really think of any. I'm sure they exist, but like I said, the movie had too many high points to allow me to focus on the negative.

Yeah, this is my jam. another 10/10 on the marvel scale, 9.5/10 on my global scale.

Also, as an aside, if anyone was curious, I think I've given maybe a half dozen films more than a 9.5 in all my years as a cinephile. No you don't want to know what they are (they're not movies you'd expect to win awards, mostly well made popcorn flicks with deep themes and character work, just like the MCU!)

Global rankings:

9.5 Captain America: Civil War
9.5 Avengers: Age of Ultron
9.5 The Avengers
9.4 Guardians of the Galaxy
9.4 Captain America: The Winter Soldier
9.3 Black Panther
9.2 Captain America: The First Avenger
9.1 Iron Man 3
9.0 Iron Man
8.9 Iron Man 2
8.7 Thor: The Dark World
8.3 Thor
8.0 Ant-Man
6.1 The Incredible Hulk



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Alara317 said:
And I just got through Civil War, and I'm glad to have it in my top tier as well.

10/10 on the marvel scale.

Pretty much everything about it is on point. I don't want to get too into it because there's just so much to go through, but here are some high points:

Opening action scene is lengthy and sets everything in motion. It has great action and character beats. In fact, all of act one is a great way to introduce the characters, their motivations, and their reasoning behind why they end up doing what they do.

The chase scene through Bucharest was so awesome to me, I liked it almost as much as the Airport scene.

Black Panther's introduction served as an origin story, which is also quite awesome. No complaints there.

Best spider man, easily. I mean, I loved the Tobey Maguire movies, but I think Tom Holland is pitch perfect.

The Winter Soldier escape was also quite amazing, lots of great character work there as well. Seriously, I could go on and on about the character work in these films.

I actually really liked Zemo, which I know is an unpopular opinion. Sure, his plan was all over the place and needlessly complicated, but I tend to imagine he was improvising more than he was sticking to a plan. I mean, heroes can do that, why can't villains? Plus he gave a more visceral feel to the movie, given that the central conflict was more personal despite much of the narrative being focused on worldwide politics.

Much like The Winter Soldier, the movie handled espionage/politics well without being too overt about it. This made it special and unique with poignant themes that will never not be timely.

The final fight in Siberia was also another high point in the whole endeavor. Such a deeply affecting, violent scene fueled by emotion. This is great filmmaking.

Honestly, I love how well the movie balanced levity with soul. There are some truly heart wrenching moments throughout that you feel deep in your gut, but the movie doesn't fail to be funny. There are jokes, but there's also a lot of weight applied to the events of the film.

I honestly can't think of any overt issues with the film. I mean, it's not perfect, but as I sit here trying to think up some flaws so I don't sound like a fangirl, I can't really think of any. I'm sure they exist, but like I said, the movie had too many high points to allow me to focus on the negative.

Yeah, this is my jam. another 10/10 on the marvel scale, 9.5/10 on my global scale.

Also, as an aside, if anyone was curious, I think I've given maybe a half dozen films more than a 9.5 in all my years as a cinephile. No you don't want to know what they are (they're not movies you'd expect to win awards, mostly well made popcorn flicks with deep themes and character work, just like the MCU!)

Global rankings:

9.5 Captain America: Civil War
9.5 Avengers: Age of Ultron
9.5 The Avengers
9.4 Guardians of the Galaxy
9.4 Captain America: The Winter Soldier
9.3 Black Panther
9.2 Captain America: The First Avenger
9.1 Iron Man 3
9.0 Iron Man
8.9 Iron Man 2
8.7 Thor: The Dark World
8.3 Thor
8.0 Ant-Man
6.1 The Incredible Hulk

I'm actually quite curious to know what half dozen movies you love. I genuinely couldn't care less if they aren't particularly well revered. We all have movies that we have connections to that others might not. There's this one movie called 'Clown' that isn't particularly dramatic or suspenseful, but is incredibly enjoyable for me. I'd love to hear a different perspective on certain movies.



 

 

Civil War is a odd duck for me. The biggest problem I had with the film upon first viewing, and one that still hits me now, not as strongly, but still there, is I have trouble buying the central conflict of the film. What would cause the Avengers to turn on each other with such force that Iron Man and Captain America would, not just fight, but be at one another’s throats? I think this film does a decent enough job setting up the conflict, but it has enough cracks in it that it’s still nothing more than a plot device, and, to me at least, causes the film to suffer as a result.

The film starts well enough. Like previous Marvel films, it introduces strong concepts that has us questioning the world in which a superhero operates. In this film, since secret identities are non-existent, the split comes from accountability. Who do the Avengers report to now that SHIELD is gone? What gives them the authority to operate? This is a great premise but it’s presented in such a way that the ideas being argued don’t really match up with the history.

Sides inevitably start to form. Cap believes that to submit to oversight takes away their ability to control their own destiny. To avoid being used as political pawns. This is a far cry from the good soldier who would never question an order back in The First Avenger. On the other side we have Tony. His guilt from the Ultron incident leads him to embrace someone else making the big decisions. Because of his arrogance and hubris, countless people were killed in Ultron. Because of his personal actions, he believes they ALL need oversight. But Cap is right, it’s ultimately just shifting the responsibility. Tony is seeking personal absolution but enforcing that desire on everyone. If the film were setting this up to be the case, I could buy the divide more. But I think this is more subtext than what the film was actually trying to convey. Especially given how quickly he abandons it later.

Full disclosure: I was always Team Cap. There was never a moment in this film where I thought, “No. Tony has it right”. And I think this is because the film does not do a good job of fleshing out Tony’s side. His motivations keep changing, from a guilt trip to his obsessive need to control to finally out and out rage. I get this is Cap’s film but if you want to create true conflict, you need to give both sides equal weight and motivation. By having the audience side with Cap from the outset, it muddies up Tony’s story and he’s just there to stand in for the opposing side. And at the end, I just can’t buy that Tony would be so filled with rage, he’d be willing to murder someone not in control of his actions, and even Cap just to make himself feel better.

Cap’s arc has a strong through-line from his first film to now. We see the evolution of that character as he dealt with the modern world and its shades of gray. Tony, on the other hand, seemingly has an arc but his essential character always remains the same. He’s motivated by ego and selfish desires. We need to do THIS because I believe it to be so. I will lock up anyone who goes against me and, by the end, will kill anyone getting in my way. Maybe that’s supposed to be the case. I don’t know. Maybe I don’t want to see Tony as little more than how he started in the first film. I want to believe he’s grown and maybe he hasn’t. Maybe my inability to see this as just how he is is what’s driving my trouble with the film.

Which brings me to Zemo, the film’s macguffin. His goal is to split the Avengers, get them to kill one another. But again, I don’t see how they are the point where that is possible. And the film quickly patches it over within minutes. Tony is already reconsidering his split with Cap before the credits role. And is there any doubt that they would not come together if they were needed? We wouldn’t be doing this rewatch if that were so. Zemo’s plan is also hugely contrived to an almost ridiculous degree (see the honest trailer). That doesn’t hit you in the film, so it’s not a total detriment to the story.

I will say the action and characterization are well done. The Russo’s manage to balance all their characters pretty handily. This gives me hope for Infinity War although our cast is going to almost double. Whereas Ultron felt overstuffed with too many subplots, this film felt brisk, moving along at a steady pace and never getting lost in the minutia. It helps when you can focus on a singular story and are not trying to set up multiple other films.

Ant-Man is more enjoyable here in twenty minutes than his entire two hour film. And I’m so glad this film brings us back to the bond between Cap and Widow. That was a strong element in Winter Soldier, was dropped for Ultron, and came back with a force here. I had trouble seeing how she would side against Cap, but, while agreeing with the Accords, her loyalty to Cap was never in doubt. Black Panther and Spider-Man are also given strong debuts that feel organic to to the overall story. And we get more development of characters barely sketched in Ultron. The relationship between Wanda and Vision feels real, if a little underdeveloped. But they do have chemistry and her anger at him in the scene where she escapes the compound is palpable along with his touching concern for her safety.

I’m going to give Civil War a 7/10. I think with a tighter script it could be better. The film never lags, the Russo’s know their action and seem to be able to balance a larger group of characters that overwhelmed the previous team-up film. Maybe upon another rewatch I will have a similar breakthrough where my issues with the plot will not feel as acute and I’ll move it up. I held Winter Soldier back originally because I was afraid my love for the film would artificially enhance my score. Maybe I’m holding Civil War back because I just don’t like the story being told. Time will tell. I’m only human.

Current Rankings (flipped Ultron and BP):
1) Captain America: The Winter Soldier
2) Iron Man
3) The Avengers
4) Captain America: Civil War
5) Guardians of the Galaxy
6) The Incredible Hulk
7) Black Panther
8) Avengers: Age of Ultron
9) Iron Man 3
10) Captain America: The First Avenger
11) Ant-Man
12) Thor: The Dark World
13) Thor
14) Iron Man 2

Last edited by Doc755 - on 01 April 2018

Smartie900 said:

I'm actually quite curious to know what half dozen movies you love. I genuinely couldn't care less if they aren't particularly well revered. We all have movies that we have connections to that others might not. There's this one movie called 'Clown' that isn't particularly dramatic or suspenseful, but is incredibly enjoyable for me. I'd love to hear a different perspective on certain movies.

Makes sense. Well, keep in mind that a huge portion of this comes from nostalgia or personal love, not from a critical standpoint: 

9.6 - Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2
9.6 - Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest
9.6 - Jurassic Park
9.7 - Avatar
9.7 - The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King
9.8 - Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End

I love my fantasy and Sci-Fi Epics! Yes, I am eagerly anticipating Avatar 2 and 3. Yes, I loved Jurassic World (Flaws and all). Yes, I loved Pirates: Dead Men Tell No Tales. 

I also PREFER to combine stories and movies. like, as far as I'm concerned, Kill Bill is one movie. Pirates 2/3 are one story. Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions is one story. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows should be seen as one movie. If we're allowed to do that, then Kill Bill is on the list, Pirates 2/3 gets a 9.9, Harry Potter gets a 9.7....etc. 

Then again, my 'favourite' movie list is more about franchises than individual movies, because great filmmaking - when serialized - makes a franchise better than the sum of its parts. Case in point: The Lord of the Rings as a franchise is basically a perfect 10, while The Two Towers is like a 9.3. the MCU is like, near perfection as an overall story, but no individual parts get higher than a 9.5, because no individual piece tells the whole story. 

So yeah, I know what I like, I have tastes that are pretty bland in some cases, but That's my top 6 list of individual movies. As for top ten 'franchises', here they are: 

1 - Pirates of the Caribbean
2 - Middle-Earth (Hobbit/Lord of the Rings)
3 - Marvel Cinematic Universe
4 - Harry Potter
5 - Avatar
6 - Jurassic Park
7 - The Incredibles
8 - Ratatouille
9 - Kill Bill
10 - Hook

No Star Wars, which is odd because it is both sci-fi and fantasy and is a super popular franchise! 



Doctor Strange: Damn, what a trip!

8/10 for this one.

While its arrogant genius character arc is far too similar to Iron Man, Doctor Strange is a wonderful character in his own right and the movie brings forth some amazing new 'dimensions' to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I loved the antagonists (Kaecillius and Dormammu), the action was impeccable, and the whole thing was gloriously unique.

"Dormammu, I've come to bargain..." One of the best sequences in the Marvel cinematic universe thus far. That, plus the entire final reversed fight scene was a tonne of fun, creative, and original.

In fact, the film's strengths almost all come down to just how unique and creative it is. The opening scene with The Ancient One starts us off very well by showing what sort of mess we're in for, the stuff with Kaecillius stealing the page and using it to twist reality is amazing, and there's an entire 40 minute stretch that is some of the most imaginative filmmaking I've ever seen.

Ever. Not just in the MCU.

Everything from the attack on the Sanctum, through to Strange defending New York to the scene in the hospital with the astral forms to the fight on the twisting, inception-style battlefield to the Ancient One's passing to the final fight and the aforementioned 'I've come to bargain' scene is cinematic mastery.

I really don't feel the need to boast about the film's merits, but it was a lot of fun, it was creative, it was unlike anything I've ever seen before. I loved this film, and I can't wait to see what happens next in this series; I also can't wait to see what happens in Infinity War with this character.

And like all other MCU films, it's also very funny. Again, Marvel has hit the nail on a few key elements so consistently that I really don't feel the need to elaborate.

1 - All of them have very fun and engaging heroes/main characters
2 - All of them are made with skill and precision (So cinematography/editing etc are all top notch.)
3 - They almost all deal with deeper, more mature themes but are still palatable for a wider audience.
4 - They are almost all funny, at least to an extent.
5 - Almost all of them have something unique or interesting to set them apart.

So yeah, There's a reason the MCU has been so successful!

My global rankings:

9.5 Captain America: Civil War
9.5 Avengers: Age of Ultron
9.5 The Avengers
9.4 Guardians of the Galaxy
9.4 Captain America: The Winter Soldier
9.3 Black Panther
9.3 Doctor Strange
9.2 Captain America: The First Avenger
9.1 Iron Man 3
9.0 Iron Man
8.9 Iron Man 2
8.7 Thor: The Dark World
8.3 Thor
8.0 Ant-Man
6.1 The Incredible Hulk

And as an update for the poor soul who has to go through and update the OP:

6/10 - Iron Man
2/10 - The Incredible Hulk
6/10 - Iron Man 2
5/10 - Thor
7/10 - Captain America: The First Avenger
10/10 - The Avengers
6/10 - Iron Man 3
5/10 - Thor: The Dark World
9/10 - Captain America: The Winter Soldier
9/10 - Guardians of the Galaxy
10/10 - Avengers: Age of Ultron
5/10 - Ant-Man
10/10 - Captain America: Civil War
8/10 - Doctor Strange
x/10 - Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2
x/10 - Spider-Man: Homecoming
x/10 - Thor: Ragnarok
8/10 - Black Panther

Last edited by Alara317 - on 01 April 2018

Thor 5/10
Cap 7/10
Avengers 9/10

Don't know how many phase 2 I can watch, will just do a run down of my views.

Thor 2: 3/10
Ironman 3: 6/10
Winter Soldier 9/10
Guardians of the Galaxy 10/10
Ant-Man 9/10