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Forums - Movies & TV - The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

Soundwave said:
"The Mary Sue is bad for box office" stuff doesn't even make sense ... Rey is a bigger Mary Sue in the The Force Awakens and people went to see that again ... and again ... and again ... and again.

$936 million domestic is unbelievable actually, that's more than Avatar and right with Titanic's initial run which was *monsterous* in the US and the very definition of box office legs.

So basically people want JJ Abrams and more Rey Mary Sue if we are to conclude the formula differences from TFA to TLJ.

Of course that doesn't really fit the narrative of the "damnit, give me more cock in my Star Wars, Disney!" crowd, lol.

Rey could've been a male character and the complaints would still be the same with all the contrived character development and accomplishments. Not sure why you're trying to push gender into the conversation when the main issues are independent of that.



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NightlyPoe said:
thismeintiel said:
Interesting that I am being accused of goalpost moving when it is clear who is moving goalposts. I have stayed firm, this movie is a big disappointment. The fan backlash led to much of its huge decline over TFA. I have continued to give further data supporting my claims.

Yeah, goalpost moving.  You can't rely on your original evidence, the film has stubbornly refused to behave like a movie rejected by the audience.  Other than its second weekend it's behaved like a well-received movie.

All you're left with are comparisons to the gross total of The Force Awakens, which is just silly, complaints about other people's arguments, some of which are quite valid, one reporter's high estimate, and an utterly baffling reliance on the foreign box office in countries that do not house large amounts of fans in the first place.

I mean, seriously?  China?

Just admit that the second weekend drop did not mean there was a fan backlash.  It's not difficult.

It's behaved just like a movie rejected by much of its fanbase. Huge drop off no one expected and looks to finish 30%+ down from its predecessor, meaning it never really recovered. Director out pleading with fans to go watch it, they can always change what he did. Poor user ratings. And that wasn't one reporter's estimates. Why the blatant misrepresentation? If you were so sure in your argument, you wouldn't need to use that. That was the general consensus by Hollywood insiders. Even after the fall. Just the holidays, right? Same goes for the foreign market. Xmas isn't large everywhere, and SW has always done well at the foreign box office, yet you dismiss it having even larger drops there. 

I'm just going to stop replying to you. You clearly can't see the obvious. To think that the sequel to one of most successful SW movies was going to finish below the Avengers movies is just ridiculous. In fact, Hollywood insiders agreed. And ESB finished at ~$1.5B, adjusting for ticket inflation, without the huge increases to both markets we have seen in the last 37 years since its release. Still haven't addressed that. So, good day. 

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 05 January 2018

darkenergy said:
Was TLJ a disappointment or a success at the box office? I won't say due to the heated debate in this thread.

Depending on your expectations, it will finish at around 1.4 billons, won't break into the top 5.

It's doing like the Avengers sequel and will finish around 600-650  millions  behind TFA.



On an entertainment level it's a good movie, just try not to think much about the many inconsistencies, plot holes, deus ex machinas, and so on. Either way it still became a huge hit in the box office so...



darkenergy said:
Was TLJ a disappointment or a success at the box office? I won't say due to the heated debate in this thread.

I think it was a success from a sales point of view. A movie with 1 billion in sales cannot be a disappointment. But I think it is way below TFA, more than Disney expected. I think the numbers show it. But still a huge hit. Its just a guess, but part of it I think comes from the fact that a lot of people didnt go for a 2nd or 3rd view as they didnt like the movie, like me. It was supposed to be, at least, way above Rogue One I think.



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TheLegendaryWolf said:
On an entertainment level it's a good movie, just try not to think much about the many inconsistencies, plot holes, deus ex machinas, and so on. Either way it still became a huge hit in the box office so...

Star Wars has never been a franchise that you needed to turn your brain completely off for, nor do I want it to drop to that, like some Transformer movie. So, no thanks. 



thismeintiel said:
TheLegendaryWolf said:
On an entertainment level it's a good movie, just try not to think much about the many inconsistencies, plot holes, deus ex machinas, and so on. Either way it still became a huge hit in the box office so...

Star Wars has never been a franchise that you needed to turn your brain completely off for, nor do I want it to drop to that, like some Transformer movie. So, no thanks. 

Well except for like the three previous Star Wars prequels. An army full of clones just shows up and none of the Jedi really seem to ask too many questions about it and just use said army for starters. 

The Transformers movie had better acting than the Star Wars prequels too, which is sad. 



I think Disney would've preferred 1.4-1.5 billion for TLJ, but they'll "settle" for 1.25-1.4 billion instead.

Well I'm sure actually they'd love 2 billion every time out, but that's a freaking ridiculous ask. This the third Star Wars movie in 3 years, people are simply not going to be as excited every single time out. That's just not a realistic ask of the franchise even if they sat down and put everything the fanboys want in the film.

TFA overperformed domestically largely on nostalgia I think. It's a decent film but $936 million domestic, lol. That's ridiculous. Ditto for Jurassic World. Neither are that great, they're just solid.



Prediction time? Will this movie enter the top ten of all time? It would have to beat current #10 Beauty and the Beast (2017) with 1.26B $ total.

Currently TLJ is at 1.12B total, so 114M to go.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/



Aeolus451 said:
Soundwave said:
"The Mary Sue is bad for box office" stuff doesn't even make sense ... Rey is a bigger Mary Sue in the The Force Awakens and people went to see that again ... and again ... and again ... and again.

$936 million domestic is unbelievable actually, that's more than Avatar and right with Titanic's initial run which was *monsterous* in the US and the very definition of box office legs.

So basically people want JJ Abrams and more Rey Mary Sue if we are to conclude the formula differences from TFA to TLJ.

Of course that doesn't really fit the narrative of the "damnit, give me more cock in my Star Wars, Disney!" crowd, lol.

`Would you cut this shit out? No one has said anything like that so stop trying to make it sound anyone who doesn't like Rey is sexist. Plenty of people who don't like the film explained it so a child could understand their reasoning. You're intentionally trying to misrepresent people's opinions on this by smearing them as sexists. 

It's right in the OPs post (Gary Stu/Mary Sue stuff) as being cited as one of the reasons why TLJ isn't making enough money. But that doesn't even make sense. The Force Awakens had people go see it over and over and over again. 

It's practically tied with Titanic for domestic box office which is unbelievable and not possible without tremendous word of mouth and repeat viewership. If anything then if we are using the "box office is never wrong" logic, then by said logic, The Force Awakens formula of JJ Abrams writing + Rey as the defacto lead character and the way she was written in TFA is what Disney needs to do *more* of. 

But of course that doesn't fit the agenda that some people have. If you're going to argue box office this, box office that, fine, but you can't have it both ways. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 05 January 2018