| Soundwave said: Rey is Harry Potter or Neo of Star Wars. Not so catchy now, huh? Those characters are Gary Stus. Or more common as a fictional archetype the chosen one, golden child, etc. It's not even a rare character in fantasy tropes. |
Is only a problem when is a woman, but that's not sexism is just, you know.... yeah maybe is just sexism.
Goodnightmoon said:
Is only a problem when is a woman, but that's not sexism is just, you know.... yeah maybe is just sexism. |
In this case people saying sexism probably have a case. There is definitely some of that going on. Such a character never gets criticized if it's a guy. I recall zero complaints about Neo "Compu-Messiah" in the Matrix or Harry Potter: Isn't He Wonderful/Special/Smart/Perfect/Should Be Fucking Heromonie But He's So Good He Lets His Mate Have Her. I do think the sequels should give Rey more time though, there's too many characters and they are focusing on too many things around her.
mZuzek said:
What even is a "filmaffinity"? Why don't you use numbers from more mainstream movie sites like... oh, I see already - because it doesn't help your point. Not trying to defend Bright here or anything, I haven't seen it to judge nor do I care, but this isn't the first time I've seen people bring up weird sites for reference. Also, Rey is a Mary Sue. That has always been true and the fact that some people here are trying to deny it is baffling. Even I could admit she was a Mary Sue two years ago, when it was TFA hype season full force and I loved the movie, and its characters too - particularly her. I mean, I don't even feel compelled to explain why here, everyone knows and it's so, so clear to see. I mean, is it that hard to accept a bit of criticism? You're free to enjoy whatever movie you want and if you genuinely think The Last Jedi is an amazing film, then all power to you, but do accept that some things it doesn't do right and move on if you can enjoy it despite those. At this point I don't think I've seen you accept even the slightest criticism, you're constantly defending absolutely everything the movie does and keep insisting there's nothing wrong with it - when clearly there must be if at least half the audience who's seen it disliked it. |
It's fair to ask though why wasn't that same criticism levelled at this:
Why is it only now that it's a big deal. The above is INTENTIONAL too. The character concept of the "golden child", "chosen one" is common in fantasy and has been for ages. The trope is a character who is basically annointed by divine choosing to bring some kind of justice/balance into a world that has been corrupted by darkness/war. Said character will exhibit exceptional abilities that go beyond reason or what any "normal" person has. Said person will often have good fortune land in their lap. Said character will often have a character foil that is initially jealous/resentful of their "chosen one" ablity (Draco to Harry Potter, Cypher to Neo, Kylo to Rey). Said character can do things that other people, even talented people needs years to do in a very short period of time (Neo displays greater power than Morpheus after 5 minutes of sparring, Harry is instantly better than Draco at quiddich despite never really using a broom to fly before, Rey bests Kylo the first time they fight).
She's not even the first Star Wars character like this. Anakin is, that story just subverts the trope by turning Anakin into a dick head, lol, but it's the same idea.
You guys should pay attention in English class/story study.
Last edited by Soundwave - on 02 January 2018
mZuzek said:
What even is a "filmaffinity"? Why don't you use numbers from more mainstream movie sites like... oh, I see already - because it doesn't help your point. Not trying to defend Bright here or anything, I haven't seen it to judge nor do I care, but this isn't the first time I've seen people bring up weird sites for reference. |
Weird sites, are you crazy? Filmaffinity has more than 500.000 users, is the most popular web of its kind in spanish and is extremelly popular in Spain and South America, just cause you don't know it doesn't mean its a fucking weird place and just cause isn't as mainstream as the US centered Imdb doesn't mean is some kind of underground web, a bunch of movies have more than 150.000 votes and the page itself is arguably better designed than Imdb and getting more and more popular everyday, do yourself a favour and stop being so vocal about your ignorance, also if you want to use Imdb (which represents a more american kind of taste) then fine, the movie has a 6.6 there, which as far as I understand is not exactly a great score for imdb standars, is basically the same score as The Phantom Menace.
Bright is a complete turd. If that's the argument we're using then it just proves the viewers have no idea what they're talking about and furthers the case for The Last Jedi being a good movie.
mZuzek said:
Mostly already addressed. I kinda forgot about Harry in his first movie, he was definitely a Mary Sue there, I'll give you that - it's no wonder I think that's one of the worse HP films. Also maybe take back Neo being a Mary Sue in Reloaded and Revolutions, because just the fact that he undergoes that evolution throughout at least one entire movie means he's earned that "right to be OP", regardless of how bad the movies were. In fact I'm starting to notice you have a thing for always making comparisons to other badly received movies here, SW prequels and Matrix trilogy galore. I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove with this. If anything I do think the whole Mary Sue thing is sort of blown out of proportion, I don't think it's that big of an issue, though it certainly has become a bigger one since TFA. The main problem here is that Rey simply isn't much of an interesting character - I think maybe you could say the same about Harry Potter himself, but because he spends the vast majority of his 8 movies with his friends, he eventually becomes interesting if only for the relationships he develops, something Rey doesn't do with anyone in TLJ. |
What I don't think you're getting is this is a character archetype that's intentional. It's not an accident. And it's not even a "new" thing, lol, sweet jeebus to all the millennials who think that. This is an ancient story trope.
Neo's character is not a mistake, Harry Potter's is a not a mistake, neither is Rey. The character is intended to be exactly what's shown on screen. It's not some "mistake" they made writing the movie.
Rey even follows all the hallmarks of this character design to a tee, see my examples above. She even has a foil character common to this character type (a "lesser" character who was at one time the top cheese/big fish but has their thunder stolen and becomes jealous/angry of said character).
This stuff is all Joesph Campbell who studies mythic story archetypes going back to the beginning of story telling. It's laughable to suggest this is something new or accidental.
Last edited by Soundwave - on 02 January 2018
Soundwave said:
Seems somewhat dubious to me. Your son's theater cut 5/6 TLJ's screens to show what? Nothing of note opened last Friday and nothing of note is opening this coming weekend. |
Wow, really? They did just have 5 movies open last weekend. Though, I did make a slight mistake. They dropped it to two, not one. I can give you their website if you wish. I'm sure they are also making room for Insidious this weekend. Then, next weekend you have Paddington 2.
mZuzek said:
Oh yeah but imdb weighs critic scores quite heavily in comparison to user scores, this is actually incredibly obvious if you look at TLJ. Its score there was 7.6 last time I checked, but going through user reviews I counted maybe 3 or 4 positive ones out of about 80 or something. So in the case of Phantom Menace for example, the user reception there is actually probably worse than Bright, because Bright has had to counterbalance a much worse critical reception. And no, I really don't know this filmaffinity thing and I'm from South America actually. I don't doubt it being big and stuff, but I don't see why you wouldn't use the most mainstream ones rather than only the semi-mainstream or whatever. I have noticed the proportion of TLJ haters seems to be smaller here in Brazil than in the US, but it's still pretty big. |
Cause that was a more clear example that many people don't like that movie, seems like americans like it more and still don't think is great, but outside US the movie seems to be considered pretty weak to say the least, which is pretty on par with what critics said. Now I do have to admit I don't think the movie deserves a 29 on metacritic, it does has some interesting concepts and it isn't as absolutely painful as that score would make you think but I still found it pretty bad, it would be like a 4/10 to me. And yeah you live in south america but not on the spanish side.
So is The Force Awakens a great film now then? Is that what we've settled on? I mean TFA made an incredible $936 million in the US alone which is more than Titanic or Avatar so if box office response is the barometer, TFA must be an all time great movie.
And JJ Abrams is coming back to direct Episode IX, that was already settled before Episode VIII even released.
So I guess ... why aren't you guys happy then? You're getting what you presumably want. More JJ-Star Wars with likely a very happy ending and lots of nostalgia moments.
If the narrative is "they're totally firing Rian Johnson and going back to JJ Abrams because he was so successful!" ... doesn't that narrative basically lose all it's fizzle when JJ Abrams was already slated to come back anyway for the next movie? lol.
Last edited by Soundwave - on 02 January 2018
| Simpleton said: Bright is a complete turd. If that's the argument we're using then it just proves the viewers have no idea what they're talking about and furthers the case for The Last Jedi being a good movie. |
Yup, and also shows how completely unreliable the user scores on rottentomatoes are, the same people that give TLJ only a 50% on the tomatometer is the people giving Bright a 88% of recomendation which is absolutely laughable.
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