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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - What I hope FE Echoes doesn't mean for FE 2018

I just didn't like how the items were handled. Really, really disliked that. Other than that, I hope the next game keeps the castle mechanism from Fates and the Dungeon mechanism from Echoes. I really loved actually controlling the character and having mini battles. That was super awesome.



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uran10 said:

I agree with everything you said here. I hope they give us map designs on par with radiant dawn. hopefully enemy turns don't take as long with some of the longer maps but I'd prefer this. You have casual mode making it accessible along with everything you stated and RD difficulty and we have the perfect FE.

Yeah, Radiant Dawn got a bit too big at times, and some battles had way too many non-player controlled units, but overall I really liked the map designs in that one.

I'm perfectly okay with casual mode and multiple difficulty options...I don't see the value in being elitist with my hobbies. The more people that can get to enjoy these games, the better. I just hope I get a challenge out of it without having to beat the game first...Awakening and Fates: Birthright were cakewalks even on Hard Mode.



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Three things that are probably locks for the next FE game on Switch

1. Full voice acting... Obviously there are no reasons not to and after Echoes it is expected.

2. Relationship/Support system... Echoes has done ok, but you look at the sales and push and I think it is obvious what games Intelligent Systems and the public went all in on and why. I mean they added a half baked version into the mobile game for goodness sake.

3. DLC... Bout that money man.


Personally, given they are moving from 3DS to a HD system and their previous first steps on new systems with different technology, I don't expect them to be ready in 2018 or at least not with a lot of help from another developer involved with HD experience or a game that isn't of the best technical quality like the N64 like models in Path of Radiance or the missing feet in Awakening.



uran10 said:
Lonely_Dolphin said:

Yeah I haven't played or even seen the original NES version, so I wouldn't know what's stayed the same or changed between it and Echoes. I would assume the watered down pair up system is new though.

 

I'm an Awakening baby here, and yeah looks like we're of opposite minds on this. I loved planning out team comps and the satisfaction of seeing my own unique builds working just as planned! Sounds like you're more of a minimalist so I definitely see Echoes being a good fit for ya.

"watered down pair ups" is how supports were originally done and honestly how I prefer them. Honestly, I prefer the older games. If I to say what the perfect FE game is it would be radiant dawn due to the great maps and the way everything was handled. Nice difficulty too.

I completely agree.

 

Also, sorry dolphin, but a game being more focused doesn't make it minimalistic. It makes it a better game because you spend more time enjoying the story and coming up with strategies for every map than to grind characters and breed them/class change them to have an OP team that one shots everything. I see you like to one shot units, but that makes the movement and weapon type all you get to think about. It removes alot of tactical elements, especially from the map layouts, wich used to play a critical role, but not anymore.



Faelco said: 

@OP: You should try Radiant Dawn or even its prequel Path of Radiance. You might change your mind on what is the best FE. If you like strategy and challenge... 

Well I also like freedom and customization so I probably wouldn't change my mind, but we'll see whenever the Switch gets Virtual Console!

 

Super_Boom said:

Outside of what you said, some things I'd like to see return or change in FE 2018:

 

  • Nice compelling story with a conflict that actually makes sense. Awakening felt too generic, and Fates was convoluted and filled with plot holes. Echoes was probably the first time I cared about the conflict in a Fire Emblem since Radiant Dawn. For a game series with war as the focus...this is kind of a problem!
  • My Unit/Tactician as an observer character, not a key story character. Robin was pushing this a bit already, but Corrin had no idea what he/she wanted to be. Having an avatar in a game like Fire Emblem is unnecessary (I'd rather take an established MC any day)...but having an avatar with an established backstory doesn't even make sense, and contradicts the point of having an avatar in the first place. It was like Fates was going after two rabbits and catching neither. Blazing Sword had the best inclusion of an avatar so far...i.e...basically just watching from the sidelines and almost never showing up.
  • No more children! I like the romance options, but the additions of kids just makes me cringe, especially when their implementation is as contrived as it was in Fates. If they are brought back, find some good story reason for it, and not just create a random other dimension to fast-bake them into adults. Gosh what sad pointless lives those kids in Fates led. /rant
  • Depth of Supports vs. Breadth. I get why Awakening and Fates went with a wider variety of support conversations...but to me, the GBA titles had the best and most compelling supports in the series so far. Hector/Lyndis and Eliwood/Ninian were fantastic, and even changed the outcome of the story in Blazing Sword. It was a disappointment to go from such compelling support conversations to "Oh I'm shy I want to be more outgoing....oops it's hard to not be shy...I guess it's okay to be shy...let's get married." I'd much rather have a few well written pairings than a million trivial ones.
  • Ability to auto-promote at level 21. Enough said...I just prefer this over having to wait for Master seals to show up.
  • Weapon durability to return. I know this is annoying, but I prefer it over the stat debuff mechanic in Fates. Inventory management adds a certain managerial charm to the game that I enjoyed.

 

I could probably think of some more things...but this is what's important enough to come to mind right now. For the record, I do enjoy Awakening and Fates...but they both brought about mechanics I really didn't like...and well...I'm very critical of this franchise I love so much. Overall, I'd say Path of Radiance is the gold standard I hold for the franchise, but that's not to say there aren't mechanics out there that could improve it.

I could get behind most of this, especially the avatar not being a focus of the story, but man I love me some kids! Just furthered the customization element, albeit at the cost of story, but eh, I'll take gameplay over story any day!

 

Platina said: 

Not being able to reclass means your character is specialized, rather than being well rounded with reclassing. Therefore, you need to pick your team better and positioning becomes more important. Which character attacks who and in what order is important. Of course, this only really matters on the final few stages or on Lunatic.

Magic has always been really powerful in basically all the FE games, but like I said, having preset accuracy means you can't always hit even on terrain that has no bonuses. Terrain bonuses are a bit too powerful in this game, though :p

 

I just gave an example of a specialized unit through reclassing, unless you really think Kinshi Knight Laslow with his low stats and low weapon ranks can really handle any situation lel. I mean reclassing doesn't mean you can be multiple classes at once, i.e. if you reclass to an Archer, then you're an Archer with all it's pros and cons. I still say it's the other way around, picking your units is more important when you have options because now it's possible to make not well balanced team comps, rather than the game just giving everything you need for every situation. For instance in Conquest you don't have to get more Archers than the 1 default, but if you don't then some of the later chapters are going to be a lot more difficult. 

But Seraphim n Excalibur have 90+ accuracy and Sages get a skill that increases accuracy, so I pretty much always hit. :L

 

 

Nem said: 

Also, sorry dolphin, but a game being more focused doesn't make it minimalistic. It makes it a better game because you spend more time enjoying the story and coming up with strategies for every map than to grind characters and breed them/class change them to have an OP team that one shots everything. I see you like to one shot units, but that makes the movement and weapon type all you get to think about. It removes alot of tactical elements, especially from the map layouts, wich used to play a critical role, but not anymore.

Ha, semantics. Well there's no denying that Echoes gameplay doesn't have as much depth, I mean cmon there's no weapon triangle. Sure the story will probably end up the best of the 3DS era, but I'm all about gameplay. Also grinding isn't mandatory, it's not even necessary if you want to reclass or get kids. And you misinterpret my meaning, well yes I like 1-shoting as much as the next guy, but I don't like that all of my units can take hits well. It lessens the importance of positioning and field wiping when you have no squishy units to be always mindful of.



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RolStoppable said:
Echoes was a big letdown and is easily the worst Fire Emblem released in the West, and that's by a very comfortable margin. But it was a remake and it's not selling well, so it's unlikely that much of its mechanics and game logic makes it into Fire Emblem Switch.

Dang that's harsh! What about it let you down?



RolStoppable said:
Lonely_Dolphin said:

Dang that's harsh! What about it let you down?

Basically all of the mechanics and game logic.

No weapon triangle, the EXP wall characters hit at level 10, the requirement to visit statues to change classes, the barebones map design, the Cantors you managed in the OP, the witches who you can't tell if they'll warp or not, the poor stat growths that amplify the lack of EXP, the Jeddah boss, the sidequests that hardly ever amount to anything worthwhile, the dumb stat growths when you change class which for the most part amount to next to nothing and only reset how much EXP you can gain.

I couldn't manage to finish the game. It starts to get tedious in act 3 before it gets outright bad in act 4 and a bunch of units are so outmatched that they become good for nothing. It doesn't help that characters can only equip one weapon or item, and stronger weapons decrease speed which increases the double-attack rate of enemies. It's as if the game was deliberately designed to be grindy in order to make you spend money on EXP DLC to make it bearable.

Well great, now I'm dreading Act 4 which I just reached lolz. These are all valid criticisms I agree with, so I guess I'm just more tolerant if I'm still enjoying the game despite it's flaws.