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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Looking into a 4K TV, any recommendations?

Hynad on 28 November 2017
irstupid said:
SvennoJ said:

Blame the stores if you think that. I've looked at OLED and quality LEDS side by side in multiple shops, picture wasn't much above. Better blacks on screens with mostly black, yet with normal programming it looked about the same.

Perhaps the slightly bitter people are those who forked out more for an OLED while having to worry about responsible use for not much extra gain ;)

Stores are never a good place to look at pitcture quality. The rooms are horrible lighting, the TV's are set on a setting that is not one you would want at home, ect.

Responsible use? You do realize gaming consoles have settings that do some sort of flicker so often to prevent any IR burn in. MY Xbox asked about this pretty sure when set it up. Also the game mode screen setting on the tv does the same. I've not onced fussed over my TV since I had it and have had no burn in. Whatever TV these days is better than the gen 1 plasmas for burn in. Hell even the most latest plasmas had practically already fixed their burn in.

Feel like anyone getting burn in are those that have their desktop on their screen all day every day.

Indeed. All the sets found in stores have their backlight set to max or near their max, with dynamic contrast and other "picture boosting" features activated. This is what we call "torch mode" in the jargon, and TV manufacturers come up with these picture settings to make their sets look more catchy/attractive in environments that have a lot of lighting (store lighting, other TVs and whatnot) from all sides of the sets, as well as to fight against glare and reflection.

You can't properly judge the quality of a TV when you see them "as is" at the stores. 

Last edited by Hynad - on 28 November 2017

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Azuren on 28 November 2017
Biggerboat1 said:
Azuren said:

Half of the logos that are burnt-in had run 2 hours on, 3.5 hours off. The VA and IPS running alongside the TV had no issue not burning in with even the torture tests, but the OLED can't even handle the gaming test.

 

Not only that, but the lower brightness is supposed to reduce burn-in, and it's been running with pixel shift active. OLED was given every opportunity to pass at least the standard 50% opacity test (10 minutes on, 2 minutes off), but it didn't.

Already posted above :

 

I love that you are doing this burn-in test! It's something I've wondered about for some time. It looks like the OLED is struggling already, so why do you recommend the top TV for gaming to be OLED? If you are doing a ton of gaming, you will likely end up with burn-in, no?

 

While it is true that completely static UI elements found in some games might cause an issue over time, it would require hundreds of hours playing the same game for a relatively minute burn-in of the shape to appear (and games where the UI uses less saturated colors should take a longer time), but without actually being visible in use. Since the effect is cumulative, it is definitely possible for this to happen after months of playing the same game, but we expect this to not be a problem for most people. Users that often leave their TV on most of the day with a news channel playing in the background are a more likely candidate for permanent retention than most gamers in our opinion. However, OLEDs do also suffer from temporary retention which can definitely appear with most normal gaming usage.

 

Oct 30, 2017

You simply can't get past the fact that the very experts you use to back up your argument, go on to recommend an oled as their gaming TV of choice... You seem to be making a much bigger deal of these results than anybody else - including the actual people conducting the tests - can you explain that? 

And those same experts will be including burn-in as a tracked aspect for overall score due to mass reports of burn-in. Care to explain that?



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Biggerboat1 on 28 November 2017
Azuren said:
Biggerboat1 said:

Already posted above :

 

I love that you are doing this burn-in test! It's something I've wondered about for some time. It looks like the OLED is struggling already, so why do you recommend the top TV for gaming to be OLED? If you are doing a ton of gaming, you will likely end up with burn-in, no?

 

While it is true that completely static UI elements found in some games might cause an issue over time, it would require hundreds of hours playing the same game for a relatively minute burn-in of the shape to appear (and games where the UI uses less saturated colors should take a longer time), but without actually being visible in use. Since the effect is cumulative, it is definitely possible for this to happen after months of playing the same game, but we expect this to not be a problem for most people. Users that often leave their TV on most of the day with a news channel playing in the background are a more likely candidate for permanent retention than most gamers in our opinion. However, OLEDs do also suffer from temporary retention which can definitely appear with most normal gaming usage.

 

Oct 30, 2017

You simply can't get past the fact that the very experts you use to back up your argument, go on to recommend an oled as their gaming TV of choice... You seem to be making a much bigger deal of these results than anybody else - including the actual people conducting the tests - can you explain that? 

And those same experts will be including burn-in as a tracked aspect for overall score due to mass reports of burn-in. Care to explain that?

Which makes sense as is obviously a negative aspect of the technology, but it is only one aspect and only under certain conditions that according to them "we expect this to not be a problem for most people"

 

Now, can you actually answer my point or do you prefer to simply deflect by answering questions with questions? 



SvennoJ on 28 November 2017
irstupid said:
SvennoJ said:

Blame the stores if you think that. I've looked at OLED and quality LEDS side by side in multiple shops, picture wasn't much above. Better blacks on screens with mostly black, yet with normal programming it looked about the same.

Perhaps the slightly bitter people are those who forked out more for an OLED while having to worry about responsible use for not much extra gain ;)

Stores are never a good place to look at pitcture quality. The rooms are horrible lighting, the TV's are set on a setting that is not one you would want at home, ect.

Responsible use? You do realize gaming consoles have settings that do some sort of flicker so often to prevent any IR burn in. MY Xbox asked about this pretty sure when set it up. Also the game mode screen setting on the tv does the same. I've not onced fussed over my TV since I had it and have had no burn in. Whatever TV these days is better than the gen 1 plasmas for burn in. Hell even the most latest plasmas had practically already fixed their burn in.

Feel like anyone getting burn in are those that have their desktop on their screen all day every day.

I don't have much choice in the matter though, so again blame the stores.

Flicker doesn't prevent burn in. The damage is cumulative, it's simply the different sub pixels wearing down at a different rate. Flicker might help image retention, not burn-in, which should be called burn out to be correct. I have kids that like to play the same games over and over. There's over 600 hours of Lego city undercover recorded on the WiiU. All of us together racked up about 400 hours of BotW. My game time on Elite dangerous is scary, wouldn't want to subject an OLED screen to that although the perfect blacks would be great for space.

Anyway I'm more concerned about how fast the pixels degrade. 20 hours a day in that test is hardly double the usage my family puts the tv through and it's very clearly showing wear after just a few weeks.



CartBlanche on 28 November 2017

Sony XE8077, comes in 43 or 49 inch models. Nice compromise between features and price for a 4K. Should have low lag for gaming and 400hz motion correction to avoid ghosting.



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Azuren on 28 November 2017
Biggerboat1 said:
Azuren said:

And those same experts will be including burn-in as a tracked aspect for overall score due to mass reports of burn-in. Care to explain that?

Which makes sense as is obviously a negative aspect of the technology, but it is only one aspect and only under certain conditions that according to them "we expect this to not be a problem for most people"

 

Now, can you actually answer my point or do you prefer to simply deflect by answering questions with questions? 

Except a little bit more research into their comments on Twitter or YouTube will reveal that it actually is a problem for most gamers.

 

And how many TVs do you deal with on a daily basis? One? Maybe two? I deal with dozens. I also deal with up to three cases of OLED burn-in a week, because I'm manager of an Audio/Video department in a national chain store. So you can speak from others' experience all you want, but I have actual first-hand experience. OLED burns in, it burns in often, and honestly any dunces who buy OLEDs for gaming despite all the warning signs deserve what they get. I'm just here trying to make sure people are as fully aware of the impending burn-in as possible.



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

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starcraft on 28 November 2017
kowenicki said:
ThisGuyFooks said:

When you game, what is the longest you have been playing before noticing some kind of Image Retention?

Or when you watch a movie with black bars, do they stay after the movie?

Im so fucking scared of IR!

My Plasmas were a nightmare, i just couldn't play videogames without the thought on my head of burn in.

Not noticed black bars after movies ever.  Normal tv viewing and movies don't represent any issue whatsoever in my experience.  I think if you play more than 3 or 4 hours solid you will get IR from any static content, but IR isn't a problem.  Burn in is.  The LG has built in tools to deal with IR.  Once you see the LG in all its glory its just mind blowing.

One point, is your main room light or dark?  A very bright room is better with a top end LED probably as they are a bit brighter than OLED , best are the Samsung qled's imo.... really very good indeed.

By definition black bars wouldn't remain. Unlike any other kind of TV currently on the market, OLED panels don't display blacks...they simply turn those pixels off...



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

LivingMetal on 28 November 2017
Biggerboat1 said:
Azuren said:

And those same experts will be including burn-in as a tracked aspect for overall score due to mass reports of burn-in. Care to explain that?

Which makes sense as is obviously a negative aspect of the technology, but it is only one aspect and only under certain conditions that according to them "we expect this to not be a problem for most people"

 

Now, can you actually answer my point or do you prefer to simply deflect by answering questions with questions? 

Answering a question with a question is not deflection. It's proving that if you can't answer the question using similar logic then your original question failed as a question.



SvennoJ on 28 November 2017
starcraft said:
kowenicki said:

Not noticed black bars after movies ever.  Normal tv viewing and movies don't represent any issue whatsoever in my experience.  I think if you play more than 3 or 4 hours solid you will get IR from any static content, but IR isn't a problem.  Burn in is.  The LG has built in tools to deal with IR.  Once you see the LG in all its glory its just mind blowing.

One point, is your main room light or dark?  A very bright room is better with a top end LED probably as they are a bit brighter than OLED , best are the Samsung qled's imo.... really very good indeed.

By definition black bars wouldn't remain. Unlike any other kind of TV currently on the market, OLED panels don't display blacks...they simply turn those pixels off...

Which means those pixels do not wear as fast as the rest used in 2.35:1 content. Who knows how long it takes before that to become noticeable though and how much 2.35:1 content do you watch?

I had the issue with Plasma, yet those were early days when 90% of tv programming was still 4:3 and I refused to watch it squashed. Result, the side bars that were normally black started to become noticeable by having slightly different brightness and color when displaying actual 16:9 content. It took many months of watching cut off 4:3 content in zoom mode for the wear to even out enough to become unnoticeable again.



Ajax on 28 November 2017

OLEDs are the best
LG, Panasonic, Philips and Sony have them
LG has got mid-range priced ones

People who say something else don’t know what they are talking about

After OLED there come many tvs
The Sony’s LEDs are good and some are reasonably priced
The Samsungs from last years are good and good priced
The Samsung QLEDs are good but way overpriced
Also alway look at Panasonic to see what they have

That’s it

The USA also has some very good cheaper brands that are not available in Europe for some reason

(I have a Sony 55XE9005)



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