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Forums - Gaming - Belgium says loot boxes are gambling, wants them banned in Europe

GribbleGrunger said:
I wonder where they were with mobile games? I'm totally against lootboxes and I'm glad people are talking about cracking down on it but I find it really odd people are talking about it now.

Probably because a certain kind of consumer constantly disregards and suppresses anything mobile gaming. It's not "real gaming" after all.

OT: I'm interested in what's gonna happen with TCGs and CCGs, the grandfathers of all lootboxes and traditionally exclusively marketed towards children.



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vivster said:
GribbleGrunger said:
I wonder where they were with mobile games? I'm totally against lootboxes and I'm glad people are talking about cracking down on it but I find it really odd people are talking about it now.

Probably because a certain kind of consumer constantly disregards and suppresses anything mobile gaming. It's not "real gaming" after all.

OT: I'm interested in what's gonna happen with TCGs and CCGs, the grandfathers of all lootboxes and traditionally exclusively marketed towards children.

TCG's are boosters of X physical cards. They still give you a physical product. Game lootboxes give you abstract rewards. Just electronic numbers.

So, they will likely be unaffected.



Nem said:
vivster said:

Probably because a certain kind of consumer constantly disregards and suppresses anything mobile gaming. It's not "real gaming" after all.

OT: I'm interested in what's gonna happen with TCGs and CCGs, the grandfathers of all lootboxes and traditionally exclusively marketed towards children.

TCG's are boosters of X physical cards. They still give you a physical product. Game lootboxes give you abstract rewards. Just electronic numbers.

As long as digital goods can be exchanged for money, the value is whatever people pay for it. Welcome to the 21st century where physical goods aren't the only thing that hold value.



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vivster said:
Nem said:

TCG's are boosters of X physical cards. They still give you a physical product. Game lootboxes give you abstract rewards. Just electronic numbers.

As long as digital goods can be exchanged for money, the value is whatever people pay for it. Welcome to the 21st century where physical goods aren't the only thing that hold value. Weird argument.

No, a card is a physical toy. It's not about the value associated with it. 

 

 

A child buys a booster of cards and they 100% get a toy.

A child buy a lootbox, they get no toy. They keep clicking the button until they feel they do.

 

Has nothing to do with 21st century, just reality.



Nem said:
vivster said:

As long as digital goods can be exchanged for money, the value is whatever people pay for it. Welcome to the 21st century where physical goods aren't the only thing that hold value. Weird argument.

No, a card is a physical toy. It's not about the value associated with it. 

A child buys a booster of cards and they 100% get a toy.

A child buy a lootbox, they get no toy. They keep clicking the button until they feel they do.

Has nothing to do with 21st century, just reality.

So you're saying it's impossible to play with digital goods? Oh god, somebody tell the people who buy their games digitally! Also someone should tell those stupid kids with their gameboys that they're not actually playing with toys and are actually having no fun whatsoever and completely wasted their money.

 

If this is not about value then your arbitrary line between paper and digital goods hasn't any value either. Everything is about value. And value can be applied to basically anything. And that's what it's about.



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IkePoR said:
SvennoJ said:

Was there chance involved in what they purchased? I've heard of those stories as well but it was always about buying in game currency or skins etc. Plus that has led to better regulation and forced Apple to tighten up their parental controls.

A closer alternative is why are Pokemon blind card packs not gambling? Loot boxes are merely the digital equivalent.


Because despite a particular Pokemon card not having value for you, you're encouraged to trade them to someone who'd want them in return for something you'd want.  A very different beast than gambling and getting useless sprays that you can't use in Overwatch.

Can't you trade loot box items? I was under the impression that people payed lots for certain digital items on Steam. Isn't that part of the problem that you can basically win money in a sense. You can sell rare pokemon cards as well or get a bunch of duds I imagine.  But I guess it's easier to keep clicking a button and buy a whole bunch of lootboxes for that specific item than going around a bunch of stores buying up all the card packs to find that one special card.



Why now? Mobile games do that for ages alrdy!



vivster said:
Nem said:

No, a card is a physical toy. It's not about the value associated with it. 

A child buys a booster of cards and they 100% get a toy.

A child buy a lootbox, they get no toy. They keep clicking the button until they feel they do.

Has nothing to do with 21st century, just reality.

So you're saying it's impossible to play with digital goods? Oh god, somebody tell the people who buy their games digitally! Also someone should tell those stupid kids with their gameboys that they're not actually playing with toys and are actually having no fun whatsoever and completely wasted their money.

 

If this is not about value then your arbitrary line between paper and digital goods hasn't any value either. Everything is about value. And value can be applied to basically anything. And that's what it's about.

You are not making any sense. A gameboy IS a toy. Buying a digital game is NOT the same as gambling for upgrades in order to be relevant.

I think you are confused. This article talks about the connection between gambling and games on children. 

But if you want to go there, i disagree with what you are saying. It is gambling because you are spinning the roulette in hopes to get a prize. That prize doesn't necessarely need to have real world money value, just be necessary or wanted. It's the addiction it triggers through randomization and real life money cost with no fix value on an item that is not physical.

So, as you see we have a fundamental disagreement on the concept.



Errorist76 said:
I want to rise a point of discussion:

What in your opinion would be a possible alternative in order to raise revenue for developers and publishers, to compensate for ever rising development costs?

I’ve been gaming since 35 years and tbh it feels as game prices have never adapted to inflation. We still basically pay the same as we did 20 years ago.

Would you accept rising game prices instead?!

Companies like CDP Red pay lower wages and rent than most other developers worldwide. A point to consider for sure.

What do you say about that controversial topic? I’d really like to know your opinion.

Just make a good game so people maybe want to spend money, see a game like GTA. Second point games like Star Wars BF/Call of duty who both have lootboxes were making an insane amount of profit before they had lootboxes.

Last edited by konnichiwa - on 22 November 2017




Errorist76 said:
I want to rise a point of discussion:

What in your opinion would be a possible alternative in order to raise revenue for developers and publishers, to compensate for ever rising development costs?

I’ve been gaming since 35 years and tbh it feels as game prices have never adapted to inflation. We still basically pay the same as we did 20 years ago.

Would you accept rising game prices instead?!

[...]

Yes. Rising game prices would be transparent and fair. Everybody would knew what they are up for. But loot boxes are just trying to exploit people and especially those that can't control themselves. The tactics are very well known in gambling and by drug dealers and there is a very good reason why both of that is strictly regulated in most countries in the world.

Besides that, rising development costs are a myth. They have been pretty flat in the last 10 years or so. Plus gaming grew astronomically in the last 35 years. The games may cost the same, but especially the big publishers sell 10 times more of them. So there really was never a reason to raise prices, which is why it never happened.



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