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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Switching the Nintendo Switch Narrative

 

Is it Valid to have it Both Ways?

Yes, the Switch is both a... 30 81.08%
 
No, that's a cheap way t... 5 13.51%
 
See Results. 2 5.41%
 
Total:37
NATO said:
Miyamotoo said:

Yes, point of Dock is to provide more power so that games can run at higher resolution in docked mode, that doesnt have nothing DS, 3DS, PSP and Vita "Docks". But console have hardware limitations because it made in way that can be used like real home console or like real handheld, if Nintendo wanted Switch could have only one portable "720p" mode, or ship console without dock and with built in controlers. Again, console is made in that way that can run full home console AAA games. Fact that they made that console have two modes and console have bigger GPU power in docked mode proves my point, they wanted extra power for docked mode for home console mode, if they didnt want that it could have same GPU power in both modes. Switch offers full home console local multiplayer, that cant be compared with what PSP ofered. Of Course that detachable Switch controllers have all point that Switch is a hybrid, because you just detach Joy Cons and used them for full home console experience, if that wasn't case and Switch is just a handheld it would have built in controllers like any other previous handheld.

Like I wrote, its obvous thats not just handheld with dock, beacuse Switch is made from start to act like real home console and like real handheld in one, thats why Switch is a hybrid of home console and handheld, so offcourse its not just handheld with dock fact is thats way more complex than that. If Switch is just handheld with dock why 3DS or any other handheld offers evrething that Switch offers. Again thats why you have portable mode and home console mode where games run difrently, thats why games are made to run in two difrent mods, thats why you have full AAA home console games, thats why you have extra GPU power in docked mode compared to handheld, that why you have local multiplayer, that why you have ditachible controlers, thats why you have dock...

It is a handheld with a dock.

Here's the thing:

If it is entirely self contained single unit (mainboard, input, screen, sound) and can power itself, entirely, from it's own power source, it's a handheld.
If it cannot be played without either or both an external display and power source, it's a home console.

PS4 can't be played without an external power source
WiiU can't be played without an external power source
WiiU, while it has a screen in the controller, cannot be played without the base unit being within range, powered on and connected to a power source.

It's a simple as that, what you have with the switch is a handheld with a dock, the whole "hybrid" line is PR talk nonsense.

To put it another way, say you're on holiday at a hotel, at night, and the power goes out - if you can still play it, it's a handheld, if you can't it's a home console.

Miyamotoo said: 

Fact that they made that console have two modes and console have bigger GPU power in docked mode proves my point

And yet it doesn't, did you even read the PSP 222/333mhz bit? it doesn't have a bigger GPU when docked, it has the exact same GPU running at it's intended speed, when NOT docked it runs at a slower speed.

Fact is that Switch is actually made from mobile hardware, but again hole Switch and everything around Switch is made to act like real home console in same time, so in practice its real hybrid. Thats not just PR talk, its fact that Switch in same time act like real home console despite mobile hardware.

Off Course that I can play it without power because it's handheld in same time, but fact is also that with power and TV you have full home console experience. Buy your points, I can say that I cant play it without power on TV, or cant played it in docked mode without external display in docked mode and thats what makes it home console. Its very obvious that Switch is both in one, handheld and home console.

So fact is that Switch isnt just a handheld with dock, it that was true you wouldnt had portable mode and home console mode where games run difrently, games wouldnt made to run in two difrent mods, we wouldnt had extra GPU power in docked mode compared to handheld, we wouldnt had full home  console local multiplayer, we wouldnt had ditachible controlers, we wouldnt had dock that gaves power for dock mode...Switch is made from start to act like real home console and like real handheld in one, a hybrid.

 

Yes it does, point with Switch GPU and two modes is to provide higher GPU power to able to play games in higher resolution in home console mode on TV, and games are made from start to work in two difrent modes, handheld and home console mode, that doesn't have anything with PSP.



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Miyamotoo said:

I can say that I cant play it without power on TV, or cant played it in docked mode without external display in docked mode and thats what makes it home console. Its very obvious that Switch is both in one, handheld and home console.

So by your definition, both the PSP3000 and PSP Go are hybrid consoles, correct?, since they can be played on the go, or played on a TV via dualshock 3 too.

Miyamotoo said: 

So fact is that Switch isnt just a handheld with dock, it that was true you wouldnt had portable mode and home console mode where games run difrently, games wouldnt made to run in two difrent mods, we wouldnt had extra GPU power in docked mode compared to handheld, we wouldnt had full home  console local multiplayer, we wouldnt had ditachible controlers, we wouldnt had dock that gaves power for dock mode...Switch is made from start to act like real home console and like real handheld in one, a hybrid.

The games do not run differently, they switch between performance modes, just like mobile phones with power states allow different performance based on what profile is set, this isn't at all anything to do with being a hybrid, there is no such thing as a hybrid, a console is either a portable or a home console.

1) you do not have extra power when docked, you have the power the hardware was originally intended to run at, disconnect the usb-c power source and the switch goes into a low power state, get this through your head.

2) Local multiplayer is just a matter of inputs, being able to sync multiple controllers to a device doesnt make it a home console, if i sync multiple xbox one s controllers to my phone and play multiplayer games with my friends, it doesn't suddenly make my phone a hybrid, it makes it a portable device with support for external controllers.

3) whether or not the controllers attach is again, a matter of input options, it has nothing to do with whether a console is handheld or home, just like whether or not a home console having physically attached controllers  (SG-1000, Famicom, Fairchild), or wired controllers (Most other consoles up until last gen), or wireless controllers, has absolutely no bearing on whether or not a console is home or portable.

4) the dock does nothing but provide AC power and translates usb-c video to HDMI, cables that do exactly that for mobile phones and other devices have existed since the standardization of usb-c, again it has no bearing on wherher or not its a portable or a home console.

Switch is a handheld console, made from the start using mobile, low power hardware to facilitate it's handheld nature, with support for video output and the syncing and use of external controllers for alternate input and multiplayer, that does not make it a home console nor does that make it a hybrid. 

Miyamotoo said: 

Yes it does, point with Switch GPU and two modes is to provide higher GPU power to able to play games in higher resolution in home console mode on TV, and games are made from start to work in two difrent modes, handheld and home console mode, that doesn't have anything with PSP.

The reason why the Switch doesn't utilize the higher power when not connected to an external power source is because the battery would die extremely fast when the hardware is operating at it's normal speed, just like the reason why launch titles were locked at 222mhz at launch for the PSP was to maintain better battery life.

A true "hybrid" would consist of a base console that is always connected to a television and external power supply, with a handheld portion that allows for play via the base console or conversely, allows for play of the same games, be it at a degraded format, independant of the base unit, in which case the system as a whole would be a hybrid system, but the base station would still be a home console and the portable segment would still be a handheld unit, it's only when looking at the entire device that you would call the complete system a hybrid.

If the Wii U tablet was capable of playing WiiU games, or even small minigames based on the games running/installed on the WiiU - Without a physical, wireless or network connection to the WiiU base unit, then the WiiU would have been a hybrid system, the switch is just a handheld console with a dock.

No amount of you insisting it is a hybrid will change that.



NATO said:
Miyamotoo said:

I can say that I cant play it without power on TV, or cant played it in docked mode without external display in docked mode and thats what makes it home console. Its very obvious that Switch is both in one, handheld and home console.

So by your definition, both the PSP3000 and PSP Go are hybrid consoles, correct?, since they can be played on the go, or played on a TV via dualshock 3 too.

Miyamotoo said: 

So fact is that Switch isnt just a handheld with dock, it that was true you wouldnt had portable mode and home console mode where games run difrently, games wouldnt made to run in two difrent mods, we wouldnt had extra GPU power in docked mode compared to handheld, we wouldnt had full home  console local multiplayer, we wouldnt had ditachible controlers, we wouldnt had dock that gaves power for dock mode...Switch is made from start to act like real home console and like real handheld in one, a hybrid.

The games do not run differently, they switch between performance modes, just like mobile phones with power states allow different performance based on what profile is set, this isn't at all anything to do with being a hybrid, there is no such thing as a hybrid, a console is either a portable or a home console.

1) you do not have extra power when docked, you have the power the hardware was originally intended to run at, disconnect the usb-c power source and the switch goes into a low power state, get this through your head.

2) Local multiplayer is just a matter of inputs, being able to sync multiple controllers to a device doesnt make it a home console, if i sync multiple xbox one s controllers to my phone and play multiplayer games with my friends, it doesn't suddenly make my phone a hybrid, it makes it a portable device with support for external controllers.

3) whether or not the controllers attach is again, a matter of input options, it has nothing to do with whether a console is handheld or home, just like whether or not a home console having physically attached controllers  (SG-1000, Famicom, Fairchild), or wired controllers (Most other consoles up until last gen), or wireless controllers, has absolutely no bearing on whether or not a console is home or portable.

4) the dock does nothing but provide AC power and translates usb-c video to HDMI, cables that do exactly that for mobile phones and other devices have existed since the standardization of usb-c, again it has no bearing on wherher or not its a portable or a home console.

Switch is a handheld console, made from the start using mobile, low power hardware to facilitate it's handheld nature, with support for video output and the syncing and use of external controllers for alternate input and multiplayer, that does not make it a home console nor does that make it a hybrid. 

Miyamotoo said: 

Yes it does, point with Switch GPU and two modes is to provide higher GPU power to able to play games in higher resolution in home console mode on TV, and games are made from start to work in two difrent modes, handheld and home console mode, that doesn't have anything with PSP.

The reason why the Switch doesn't utilize the higher power when not connected to an external power source is because the battery would die extremely fast when the hardware is operating at it's normal speed, just like the reason why launch titles were locked at 222mhz at launch for the PSP was to maintain better battery life.

A true "hybrid" would consist of a base console that is always connected to a television and external power supply, with a handheld portion that allows for play via the base console or conversely, allows for play of the same games, be it at a degraded format, independant of the base unit, in which case the system as a whole would be a hybrid system, but the base station would still be a home console and the portable segment would still be a handheld unit, it's only when looking at the entire device that you would call the complete system a hybrid.

If the Wii U tablet was capable of playing WiiU games, or even small minigames based on the games running/installed on the WiiU - Without a physical, wireless or network connection to the WiiU base unit, then the WiiU would have been a hybrid system, the switch is just a handheld console with a dock.

No amount of you insisting it is a hybrid will change that.

PSP 3000 and PSP Go dont offer full home experience and that's a fact, Switch out of box gave you full home console experience and full handheld experience, and hole Switch and everything around Switch is made in order to operate like real home console and real handheld (thats why you have two modes for evre game), that of course is not case with PSP 3000 and PSP Go.

Offcourse they run differently, fact is that developers when making games for Switch made game to run at two different modes in Switch, portable and home console mode, that why you have higher resoulution in docked mode. And of course this one of point while Switch is hybrid because have home console and handheld mode.

But fact is that you have extra power while Switch is in docked mode, console in docked mode run GPU at higher clocks compared to portable mode to offer higher resolution. Why would Nintendo do that in first place, why they just didn't make same clocks of GPU like they are in portable mod for home console mod also!? Because they wanted that game in home console mode have better visuals compare to portable mode.

Again you missing point, why Switch has at all detachable controllers, why dont have built in controllers like any other handheld, or why Switch offer full home console local multiplayer!? Because that made most sense for hybrid that act like real home console also, to use some controllers in handheld and home console mode.

Again, dock provide signal to TV and power so that games from portable mode could run in home console mode at higher resolution.

Switch is using mobile hardware and tech, but from start is made to act like real home console and real handheld and that's fact, practically Switch is hybrid of home console and handheld and thats a point.

 

But point is that they made higher clock GPU for home console mode, why they would that in first place, because they wanted that console in home console mode have better visuals and higher resolution compared to portable mode. Fact that we talking about two difrent modes of using Switch proves that Switch is a hybrid.

Its not form factor or specific hardware that determines if some device is a hybrid.

Yes, Wii U would also be hybrid if you could play use gamepad outside home.

 

All your arguments are very weak or dont have sense in trying to make point why Switch is not hybrid. On other hand I talk about facts, fact is that Switch acts like real full home console and like real handheld in same time, its fact that Switch from start is designed to act like real home console and like real handheld in same time, to be both in same time, and thats reason why Switch is a hybrid of home console and handeld, regardles point that Switch using mobile hardware.

But it seems you refuse to see or to accept that, so I dont see point of continue with this.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 17 November 2017

Miyamotoo said:

PSP 3000 and PSP Go dont offer full home experience and that's a fact, Switch out of box gave you full home console experience and full handheld experience, and hole Switch and everything around Switch is made in order to operate like real home console and real handheld (thats why you have two modes for evre game), that of course is not case with PSP 3000 and PSP Go.

The same can be said for the Switch in relation to actual home consoles, where is Doom's level editor, Skyrims mods, Story mode in Fifa?  let me guess, you don't value these things and they're option thus don't matter right?, so feel free to play a PSP game then compare it to the PS1 or earlier generation, you would have been blown away, and laugh at the idea of not calling it a full console experience.

So if someone who plays on a PC, at 4k, 60fps, all the latest and greatest titles said to you, that switch games were not "full game experiences" you would quite rightly say that was bullshit, so i'm going to say the same thing to you, that's bullshit.

Offcourse they run differently, fact is that developers when making games for Switch made game to run at two different modes in Switch, portable and home console mode, that why you have higher resoulution in docked mode. And of course this one of point while Switch is hybrid because have home console and handheld mode.

And all virtually all PC games are developed to run on a multitude of setups, operating systems, graphics cards, CPU architectures, all while giving the end user full control over things like resolution, texture detail, lighting, shadows and so on.

Does that make it hybrid? no, not at all, that is a fact.

But fact is that you have extra power while Switch is in docked mode, console in docked mode run GPU at higher clocks compared to portable mode to offer higher resolution. Why would Nintendo do that in first place, why they just didn't make same clocks of GPU like they are in portable mod for home console mod also!? Because they wanted that game in home console mode have better visuals compare to portable mode.

For the last time, the switch does not have extra power when docked, the switch runs at the originally intended speed when docked, and a lower speed when undocked, that is a fact.

Again you missing point, why Switch has at all detachable controllers, why dont have built in controllers like any other handheld, or why Switch offer full home console local multiplayer!? Because that made most sense for hybrid that act like real home console also, to use some controllers in handheld and home console mode.

Again, whether the controllers are attached or not does not make something hybrid, whether it supports external controllers or not, does not make it a hybrid, the tablets china release that have detachable controllers, designed specifically for the system to be used in exactly the same way as on the switch, are not hybrid systems, they are tablets with detachable controllers, that is a fact.

Again, dock provide signal to TV and power so that games from portable mode could run in home console mode at higher resolution.

Switch is using mobile hardware and tech, but from start is made to act like real home console and real handheld and that's fact, practically Switch is hybrid of home console and handheld and thats a point.

Dock does not provide a signal, it translates the signal sent from the switch to hdmi, it's a USB-C to HDMI passthrough, and charge power - Switch negotiates a handshake with the dock (to prevent third party adapters) and when the handshake is complete, switches the internal profile to performance, just like any standard laptop will run on a default windows installation in a power save mode when on battery and switch to full power mode when connected to the charger, this does not make it a hybrid, this just means Nintendo prioritized battery life over performance, as they always have done, each and every handheld they have released has demonstrated this, that is a fact.

But point is that they made higher clock GPU for home console mode, why they would that in first place, because they wanted that console in home console mode have better visuals and higher resolution compared to portable mode. Fact that we talking about two difrent modes of using Switch proves that Switch is a hybrid.

Again, you fail to understand that the default operating speed of the system is the same, the switch just actually uses it when connected to a power source, as in the laptop comparison, when in a power save mode, (a very simple switch in software), a different performance profile is selected - this isn't anything new and has nothing to do with whether or not a console is home or portable - what you are essentially arguing here is that if hardware utizlises performance profiles for when using internal battery or external power, that makes it a hybrid, that is incorrect and dramatically so.

Its not form factor or specific hardware that determines if some device is a hybrid.

Form factor however, dictates whether something is portable or not, that's a fact.

Yes, Wii U would also be hybrid if you could play use gamepad outside home.

Excellent you're finally getting it - the gamepad would be outside the home playing games, but a portion of the complete system, that itself, can play games, would still be sat in front of the TV, see, wasn't that hard to grasp was it?

All your arguments are very weak or dont have sense in trying to make point why Switch is not hybrid. On other hand I talk about facts, fact is that Switch acts like real full home console and like real handheld in same time, its fact that Switch from start is designed to act like real home console and like real handheld in same time, to be both in same time, and thats reason why Switch is a hybrid of home console and handeld, regardles point that Switch using mobile hardware.

But it seems you refuse to see or to accept that, so I dont see point of continue with this.

And then you spoil it all with the school yard level approach, you havent directly addressed a single one of my points and instead parrot the same, inaccurate, misguided nonsense on every reply. Conversely, every single point you made, however vauge or inaccurate, I responded to and explained clearly and completely, as to why it was wrong and gave multiple examples to show this. 

Your feelings are not facts.

If you can't handle a debate at least have the dignity to bow out gracefully rather than spout nonsense and run.



NATO said:
Miyamotoo said:

PSP 3000 and PSP Go dont offer full home experience and that's a fact, Switch out of box gave you full home console experience and full handheld experience, and hole Switch and everything around Switch is made in order to operate like real home console and real handheld (thats why you have two modes for evre game), that of course is not case with PSP 3000 and PSP Go.

The same can be said for the Switch in relation to actual home consoles, where is Doom's level editor, Skyrims mods, Story mode in Fifa?  let me guess, you don't value these things and they're option thus don't matter right?, so feel free to play a PSP game then compare it to the PS1 or earlier generation, you would have been blown away, and laugh at the idea of not calling it a full console experience.

So if someone who plays on a PC, at 4k, 60fps, all the latest and greatest titles said to you, that switch games were not "full game experiences" you would quite rightly say that was bullshit, so i'm going to say the same thing to you, that's bullshit.

Offcourse they run differently, fact is that developers when making games for Switch made game to run at two different modes in Switch, portable and home console mode, that why you have higher resoulution in docked mode. And of course this one of point while Switch is hybrid because have home console and handheld mode.

And all virtually all PC games are developed to run on a multitude of setups, operating systems, graphics cards, CPU architectures, all while giving the end user full control over things like resolution, texture detail, lighting, shadows and so on.

Does that make it hybrid? no, not at all, that is a fact.

But fact is that you have extra power while Switch is in docked mode, console in docked mode run GPU at higher clocks compared to portable mode to offer higher resolution. Why would Nintendo do that in first place, why they just didn't make same clocks of GPU like they are in portable mod for home console mod also!? Because they wanted that game in home console mode have better visuals compare to portable mode.

For the last time, the switch does not have extra power when docked, the switch runs at the originally intended speed when docked, and a lower speed when undocked, that is a fact.

Again you missing point, why Switch has at all detachable controllers, why dont have built in controllers like any other handheld, or why Switch offer full home console local multiplayer!? Because that made most sense for hybrid that act like real home console also, to use some controllers in handheld and home console mode.

Again, whether the controllers are attached or not does not make something hybrid, whether it supports external controllers or not, does not make it a hybrid, the tablets china release that have detachable controllers, designed specifically for the system to be used in exactly the same way as on the switch, are not hybrid systems, they are tablets with detachable controllers, that is a fact.

Again, dock provide signal to TV and power so that games from portable mode could run in home console mode at higher resolution.

Switch is using mobile hardware and tech, but from start is made to act like real home console and real handheld and that's fact, practically Switch is hybrid of home console and handheld and thats a point.

Dock does not provide a signal, it translates the signal sent from the switch to hdmi, it's a USB-C to HDMI passthrough, and charge power - Switch negotiates a handshake with the dock (to prevent third party adapters) and when the handshake is complete, switches the internal profile to performance, just like any standard laptop will run on a default windows installation in a power save mode when on battery and switch to full power mode when connected to the charger, this does not make it a hybrid, this just means Nintendo prioritized battery life over performance, as they always have done, each and every handheld they have released has demonstrated this, that is a fact.

But point is that they made higher clock GPU for home console mode, why they would that in first place, because they wanted that console in home console mode have better visuals and higher resolution compared to portable mode. Fact that we talking about two difrent modes of using Switch proves that Switch is a hybrid.

Again, you fail to understand that the default operating speed of the system is the same, the switch just actually uses it when connected to a power source, as in the laptop comparison, when in a power save mode, (a very simple switch in software), a different performance profile is selected - this isn't anything new and has nothing to do with whether or not a console is home or portable - what you are essentially arguing here is that if hardware utizlises performance profiles for when using internal battery or external power, that makes it a hybrid, that is incorrect and dramatically so.

Its not form factor or specific hardware that determines if some device is a hybrid.

Form factor however, dictates whether something is portable or not, that's a fact.

Yes, Wii U would also be hybrid if you could play use gamepad outside home.

Excellent you're finally getting it - the gamepad would be outside the home playing games, but a portion of the complete system, that itself, can play games, would still be sat in front of the TV, see, wasn't that hard to grasp was it?

All your arguments are very weak or dont have sense in trying to make point why Switch is not hybrid. On other hand I talk about facts, fact is that Switch acts like real full home console and like real handheld in same time, its fact that Switch from start is designed to act like real home console and like real handheld in same time, to be both in same time, and thats reason why Switch is a hybrid of home console and handeld, regardles point that Switch using mobile hardware.

But it seems you refuse to see or to accept that, so I dont see point of continue with this.

And then you spoil it all with the school yard level approach, you havent directly addressed a single one of my points and instead parrot the same, inaccurate, misguided nonsense on every reply. Conversely, every single point you made, however vauge or inaccurate, I responded to and explained clearly and completely, as to why it was wrong and gave multiple examples to show this. 

Your feelings are not facts.

If you can't handle a debate at least have the dignity to bow out gracefully rather than spout nonsense and run.

Lol, I address every of your weak or meaningless point.

Again, fact is that Switch acts like real full home console and like real handheld in same time, its fact that Switch from start is designed to act like real home console and like real handheld in same time, to be both in same time, and thats reason why Switch is a hybrid of home console and handheld, regardles point that Switch using mobile hardware.

In any case, I am done here, but you can check this thread. ;)

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=233018&page=1#3

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 17 November 2017

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Symbios63 said:
Well, this works the exact same way for Switch haters...

Switch is destroying PS4 in Japan : "This is because Switch is a handheld so of course it will sell better in Japan"

"It is unforgivable to have this kind of resolution/graphics/aliasing on a home console in 2017"

That is the beauty of the Switch, it is a hybrid ! So everyone can spin things the way they want ! We should rejoice as we have years of dishonest forum arguments in front of us !!

Pretty much this. The OP could have been written from both sides of the console fandom without attacking anyone. Unfortunately, the OP decided to frame his argument in a way that targets Nintendo fans as the only ones doing it.

EDIT : Locking thread for reasons listed above.

Last edited by TruckOSaurus - on 17 November 2017

Signature goes here!

Miyamotoo said:

Lol, I address every of your weak or meaningless point.

Again, fact is that Switch acts like real full home console and like real handheld in same time, its fact that Switch from start is designed to act like real home console and like real handheld in same time, to be both in same time, and thats reason why Switch is a hybrid of home console and handheld, regardles point that Switch using mobile hardware.

In any case, I am done here, but you can check this thread. ;)

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=233018&page=1#3

Switch was designed on and for mobile hardware, with it's portable nature in mind every step of the way, in order for it to be a hybrid, the dock would need to have been a seperate unit capable of itself playing games or adding further functionality beyond the base system, such as a built in hard drive, optical drive for optical disk based games and movies, it is not that, it is simply a dock, so the featureset of the handheld make it exactly that, a handheld with additional features over previous generation handhelds.

Mobile phones offer attachable, detachable, syncable controllers for multiplayer, different performance profiles which directly effect how a game performs and runs, it's resolution, detail, power comsumption and so on, audio/video out via docks, some (in the case of the S8 and S8+, via the Dex dock, allow the device to transform almost entirely into a desktop computer), does having the exact same feature set as the switch (and a massive list of features the switch does not have, too), make mobile phones hybrid devices?, no, they're still considered mobile phones.

And before you repeat the exact same thing for the 6th time in this thread, then run off with the "i am done here" stuff, don't be like that, man, actually think about it before hitting reply, I'm always happy to have a healthy debate.

Last edited by NATO - on 17 November 2017