By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Switching the Nintendo Switch Narrative

 

Is it Valid to have it Both Ways?

Yes, the Switch is both a... 30 81.08%
 
No, that's a cheap way t... 5 13.51%
 
See Results. 2 5.41%
 
Total:37
Veknoid_Outcast said:
Starting a thread with the thesis Nintendo fans prevaricate is probably not a great way to launch a thoughtful debate.

Maybe something like "Should the Switch be judged as a console or a handheld or both" without indicting Nintendo fans as a legion of goal-post movers.

But then it won't have that zinger of a title. C'mon, Veknoid, think.



Around the Network
ThisGuyFooks said:

*3 Hours of Battery Life is Very Poor for the Nintendo Switch*

A: That's because the Switch is a Console. 3 Hours is great for a Home Console!

*Doom at 540p/30fps is Very Underwhelming*

A: That's because the Switch is a Handheld. 540p/30fps is great for a Handheld Console!

*Playstation Consoles usually end up selling more than Nintendo Consoles*

A: Why don't you compare it with the Gameboy family? The Switch is a Handheld!

 

 

These are some examples that I've seen around the web.

What do you guys think? Is it valid to have it both ways?

Everybody who has interacted with a Nintendo fan knows what i'm talking about, they usually Switch (Pun intended) the narrative to fit their arguments, changing between the Handheld and Console nature of the console.

PLEASE VOTE AND COMMENT!

Basically all this is false, and it seems like was written buy Sony fanboy or troll:

-Almost nobody really saying that 3 hours battery is great because Switch is home console. What most people are saying is that you cant get/expect much stronger battery when you playing full AAA console games in full handheld mode on 6.2" screen, also most people will say that 3 hours battery is not great but its not deal breaker also, battery is actualy similar to 3DS launch model.

-Most people didnt say that 540p/30fps for Doom on Switch is a great, but most people saying its good port in any case (I personaly dont think its best port definatly).

-Almost every person says that Sony home consoles usually sell more than Nintendo home consoles, and nobody really saying that you need to compare them with GameBoy family. Switch is difrent beacuse its a hybrid.



NATO said:

Switch is a handheld with a TV out dock, nothing more, nothing less.

Does it make it worse to be just a handheld?, No not at all, does it make it any better to be both? Not at all either, but the reality is that it is simply a handheld with a TV out dock, the only reason the console has two performance profiles is because the built in screen and battery aren't good enough to run the thing at full power unless connected to the mains and a display with a higher resolution.

Switch is not only handheld with TV out, fact is that from start is designed that can be used like real home console or like real handheld, thats why you have portable mode and home console mode where games run difrently, thats why games are made to run in two difrent mods, thats why you have full AAA home console games, thats why you have extra GPU power in docked mode, that why you have local multiplayer, that why you have ditachible controlers, thats why you have dock...so definatly its not just handheld with dock, its a hybrid of handheld and home console.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 17 November 2017

"Great for a console" is one of my favorite sentences.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Well.. Yes it is valid to have it both ways because the Switch is both things! :P



 

"We hold these truths to be self-evident - all men and women created by the, go-you know.. you know the thing!" - Joe Biden

Around the Network

Well, this works the exact same way for Switch haters...

Switch is destroying PS4 in Japan : "This is because Switch is a handheld so of course it will sell better in Japan"

"It is unforgivable to have this kind of resolution/graphics/aliasing on a home console in 2017"

That is the beauty of the Switch, it is a hybrid ! So everyone can spin things the way they want ! We should rejoice as we have years of dishonest forum arguments in front of us !!



Symbios63 said:
Well, this works the exact same way for Switch haters...

Switch is destroying PS4 in Japan : "This is because Switch is a handheld so of course it will sell better in Japan"

"It is unforgivable to have this kind of resolution/graphics/aliasing on a home console in 2017"

That is the beauty of the Switch, it is a hybrid ! So everyone can spin things the way they want ! We should rejoice as we have years of dishonest forum arguments in front of us !!

Exactly, making points on things like those is pointless and fanboyism.



Miyamotoo said:

Switch is not only handheld with TV out, fact is that from start is designed that can be used like real home console or like real handheld, thats why you have portable mode and home console mode where games run difrently, thats why games are made to run in two difrent mods, thats why you have full AAA home console games, thats why you have extra GPU power in docked mode, that why you have local multiplayer, that why you have ditachible controlers, thats why you have dock...so definatly its not just handheld with dock, its a hybrid of handheld and home console.

Dock contains nothing but a powered USB-C to HDMI passthrough with mild handshake encryption (rushed attempted at preventing third party docks and low cost usb-c to hdmi adapters from working on it).

The device has two performance profiles because of it's hardware limitations, it has a 720p screen so what point would there be in running at 900p/1080p for that?, and because of that limitation (720p) they can afford to clock back the specification and use a less agressive performance profile to try to extend battery life.

Sony did a very similar thing with the PSP when it originally launched, limiting launch titles to an operating speed of 222mhz, with the plan to eventually allow for games to run at 333mhz when in a dock or when connected to an AC adapter, however when the PSP was cracked and modders discovered that the console wasn't running at it's full speed, and with a little bit of homebrew running in memory you could force even games locked to 222mhz to run (much more smoothly) at 333mhz, they quietly lifted the limit and future games used whatever frequency was best suited for the games.

Just as with the Switch, the reason this was done was to improve the battery life when not connected to a charger - Think of it this way, Switch (from new) has a battery life of roughly 3 hours right?, now imagine it ran at the same performance profile used when connected to a power source, even when NOT connected?, you would likely struggle to get 2 hours, and if that was the case, initial reviews which were already fairly critical of the 3 hours, would have torn it a new one.

To put it simply, there is no "Extra" power when docked, the switch is just operating at the hardwares intended speed, what infact happens is what when you are not docked, they intentionally gimp the performance to improve battery life, just like there was no "extra" power on the PSP when modding it to operate at 333mhz, that's what it was designed to run at, it was just intentionally crippled to improve battery life.

"Full AAA console games" - has nothing to do with it, the games are there regardless, if they released a game that ONLY worked in docked mode maybe you could use this as an argument.
"extra GPU power in docked mode" - Oh no baby what is you doing, reality is standard operating speed when they don't have to worry about battery power, more accurately, normal speed when docked, limp mode when undocked.
"Local multiplayer" - Been done before, on handhelds, here's an example of the psp doing exactly that -
"Detachable controllers" - Having detachable controllers has nothing to do with a console being portable, handheld or "hybrid", just as the multitude of android gaming tablets and streaming units featuring detachable controllers coming out of china *before* the switch was even revealed, aren't hybrid consoles, they're handhelds with...  dun dun duunnn..  detachable controllers.
"That's why you have a dock" - Yes and the DS had a dock, and the 3DS had a dock, and the PSP had a dock, and the Vita had a dock, and the PSP go had a dock, with both the PSP 3000 and PSP Go dock featuring tv out and ability to play via a seperate controller, all of them were still handheld consoles, go figure.

It is definitely just a handheld with a dock, the only difference is it's a handheld with a dock that copies the gimmick of removable controllers, and here's betting that some point somewhere down the consoles life cycle, they release a version that does not include the dock, and perhaps even further down the line, a version that does not feature removable controllers - and what will the argument for the thing be then? "it's still a hybrid.. honest!"

P.s. on the topic of the dock, Nyko released their own which required that their engineers adjust the device ID and handshake data to trick the switch into believing it was a legitimate Nintendo product in order to operate, here's a quote:

"Nyko representatives declined to call their effort "reverse engineering," but they did confirm that the Docking Kit's circuit board ticks off three check boxes of the official Switch Dock: to facilitate the amount of current sent to the Switch via USB Type-C (15 volts, 2.6 amps), to successfully shake hands as a "Switch product," and to push HDMI video out." 

There would no absolutely no reason to add in this protection beyond intentionally locking out third parties from releasing their own docks, and forcing owners to cough up the $80 or so for an official dock if their original was either lost or damaged, or if the owner wanted a second dock to install elsewhere - If it wasn't for this stupid lock out, you could literally just have a usb c cable that you plug in and away you go, tv out and charge capability, no dock to mess around with and no potential screen scratching over time.

Last edited by NATO - on 17 November 2017

NATO said:
Miyamotoo said:

Switch is not only handheld with TV out, fact is that from start is designed that can be used like real home console or like real handheld, thats why you have portable mode and home console mode where games run difrently, thats why games are made to run in two difrent mods, thats why you have full AAA home console games, thats why you have extra GPU power in docked mode, that why you have local multiplayer, that why you have ditachible controlers, thats why you have dock...so definatly its not just handheld with dock, its a hybrid of handheld and home console.

Dock contains nothing but a powered USB-C to HDMI passthrough with mild handshake encryption (rushed attempted at preventing third party docks and low cost usb-c to hdmi adapters from working on it).

The device has two performance profiles because of it's hardware limitations, it has a 720p screen so what point would there be in running at 900p/1080p for that?, and because of that limitation (720p) they can afford to clock back the specification and use a less agressive performance profile to try to extend battery life.

To put it simply, there is no "Extra" power when docked, the switch is just operating at the hardwares intended speed, what infact happens is what when you are not docked, they intentionally gimp the performance to improve battery life.

"Full AAA console games" - has nothing to do with it, the games are there regardless, if they released a game that ONLY worked in docked mode maybe you could use this as an argument.
"extra GPU power in docked mode" - Oh no baby what is you doing, reality is standard operating speed when they don't have to worry about battery power, more accurately, normal speed when docked, limp mode when undocked.
"Local multiplayer" - Been done before, on handhelds, here's an example of the psp doing exactly that -
"Detachable controllers" - Having detachable controllers has nothing to do with a console being portable, handheld or "hybrid", just as the multitude of android gaming tablets and streaming units featuring detachable controllers coming out of china *before* the switch was even revealed, aren't hybrid consoles, they're handhelds with...  dun dun duunnn..  detachable controllers.
"That's why you have a dock" - Yes and the DS had a dock, and the 3DS had a dock, and the PSP had a dock, and the Vita had a dock, and the PSP go had a dock, with both the PSP 3000 and PSP Go dock featuring tv out and ability to play via a seperate controller, all of them were still handheld consoles, go figure.

It is definitely just a handheld with a dock, the only difference is it's a handheld with a dock that copies the gimmick of removable controllers, and here's betting that some point somewhere down the consoles life cycle, they release a version that does not include the dock, and perhaps even further down the line, a version that does not feature removable controllers - and what will the argument for the thing be then? "it's still a hybrid.. honest!"

P.s. on the topic of the dock, Nyko released their own which required that their engineers adjust the device ID and handshake data to trick the switch into believing it was a legitimate Nintendo product in order to operate, here's a quote:

"Nyko representatives declined to call their effort "reverse engineering," but they did confirm that the Docking Kit's circuit board ticks off three check boxes of the official Switch Dock: to facilitate the amount of current sent to the Switch via USB Type-C (15 volts, 2.6 amps), to successfully shake hands as a "Switch product," and to push HDMI video out." 

There would no absolutely no reason to add in this protection beyond intentionally locking out third parties from releasing their own docks, and forcing owners to cough up the $80 or so for an official dock if their original was either lost or damaged, or if the owner wanted a second dock to install elsewhere - If it wasn't for this stupid lock out, you could literally just have a usb c cable that you plug in and away you go, tv out and charge capability, no dock to mess around with and no potential screen scratching over time. 

Yes, point of Dock is to provide more power so that games can run at higher resolution in docked mode, that doesnt have nothing DS, 3DS, PSP and Vita "Docks". But console have hardware limitations because it made in way that can be used like real home console or like real handheld, if Nintendo wanted Switch could have only one portable "720p" mode, or ship console without dock and with built in controlers. Again, console is made in that way that can run full home console AAA games. Fact that they made that console have two modes and console have bigger GPU power in docked mode proves my point, they wanted extra power for docked mode for home console mode, if they didnt want that it could have same GPU power in both modes. Switch offers full home console local multiplayer, that cant be compared with what PSP ofered. Of Course that detachable Switch controllers have all point that Switch is a hybrid, because you just detach Joy Cons and used them for full home console experience, if that wasn't case and Switch is just a handheld it would have built in controllers like any other previous handheld.

Like I wrote, its obvous thats not just handheld with dock, beacuse Switch is made from start to act like real home console and like real handheld in one, thats why Switch is a hybrid of home console and handheld, so offcourse its not just handheld with dock fact is thats way more complex than that. If Switch is just handheld with dock why 3DS or any other handheld offers evrething that Switch offers. Again thats why you have portable mode and home console mode where games run difrently, thats why games are made to run in two difrent mods, thats why you have full AAA home console games, thats why you have extra GPU power in docked mode compared to handheld, that why you have local multiplayer, that why you have ditachible controlers, thats why you have dock...

I mean it's even obvious that Switch is unified Nintendo platform, where they will not have any more separate home console platform and separate handheld platform, and thats why they made Switch hybrid thats in same time handheld and home console.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 17 November 2017

Miyamotoo said:

Yes, point of Dock is to provide more power so that games can run at higher resolution in docked mode, that doesnt have nothing DS, 3DS, PSP and Vita "Docks". But console have hardware limitations because it made in way that can be used like real home console or like real handheld, if Nintendo wanted Switch could have only one portable "720p" mode, or ship console without dock and with built in controlers. Again, console is made in that way that can run full home console AAA games. Fact that they made that console have two modes and console have bigger GPU power in docked mode proves my point, they wanted extra power for docked mode for home console mode, if they didnt want that it could have same GPU power in both modes. Switch offers full home console local multiplayer, that cant be compared with what PSP ofered. Of Course that detachable Switch controllers have all point that Switch is a hybrid, because you just detach Joy Cons and used them for full home console experience, if that wasn't case and Switch is just a handheld it would have built in controllers like any other previous handheld.

Like I wrote, its obvous thats not just handheld with dock, beacuse Switch is made from start to act like real home console and like real handheld in one, thats why Switch is a hybrid of home console and handheld, so offcourse its not just handheld with dock fact is thats way more complex than that. If Switch is just handheld with dock why 3DS or any other handheld offers evrething that Switch offers. Again thats why you have portable mode and home console mode where games run difrently, thats why games are made to run in two difrent mods, thats why you have full AAA home console games, thats why you have extra GPU power in docked mode compared to handheld, that why you have local multiplayer, that why you have ditachible controlers, thats why you have dock...

It is a handheld with a dock.

Here's the thing:

If it is entirely self contained single unit (mainboard, input, screen, sound) and can power itself, entirely, from it's own power source, it's a handheld.
If it cannot be played without either or both an external display and power source, it's a home console.

PS4 can't be played without an external power source
WiiU can't be played without an external power source
WiiU, while it has a screen in the controller, cannot be played without the base unit being within range, powered on and connected to a power source.

It's a simple as that, what you have with the switch is a handheld with a dock, the whole "hybrid" line is PR talk nonsense.

To put it another way, say you're on holiday at a hotel, at night, and the power goes out - if you can still play it, it's a handheld, if you can't it's a home console.

Miyamotoo said: 

Fact that they made that console have two modes and console have bigger GPU power in docked mode proves my point

And yet it doesn't, did you even read the PSP 222/333mhz bit? it doesn't have a bigger GPU when docked, it has the exact same GPU running at it's intended speed, when NOT docked it runs at a slower speed.

Last edited by NATO - on 17 November 2017