Forums - Nintendo Discussion - DigitalFoundry: Doom on Switch: The Complete Technical Analysis!

Shiken said:

Seeing how using our eyes is how we play games, that is what matters.  It is there job to point out where the dips take place, and they tell you it is primarily in Arcade mode.  They are looking for dips using tools that you will not use playing the game.  Furthermore the dips that do come to light is what they will focus on in the article, because that is what they are looking for.

False. We use our eyes to observe our games.
We use our hands to play them.

How a game feels to play doesn't always align with what we observe on the screen.

And I quote Digital Foundry: "During any major firefight, performance can start drop below the 30fps line, leading to a prolonged loss of fluidity." - Digital Foundry's suggestion is to reduce the difficulty in the campaign to get around the issue. (Note: The Arcade is the Campaign with tweaks.)

Note: Shit frame pacing persists regardless of mode, which also directly affects gameplay.

But you have essentially answered my question, that you do not have the tools, you don't have the empirical evidence and thus we should take the evidence that Digital has provided over your assertions.

Shiken said:

So no, they are not lyers.  However their findings are far less relevant that my own personal experience with the game and the experience of people actually playing it as well.

The thing about framerates and framepacing is that... One person isn't going to be as sensitive to it at as the next... Which is WHY you need the appropriate tools in the first place to have a proper representation of such issues.

However, I do have standards, 720P, 1080P, 30fps is rubbish as we enter into 2018, below that is unacceptable in my eyes, if you have lower standards than that, that is also fine.
I would have rather a reduction in visuals for more consistent framerates and a boost to resolution, that is just me though.

Miyamotoo said:

But people in this thread that actually have game are saying that is acceptable and that game runs good even if there are some slow downs.

I tend to believe evidence.
Anecdotal accounts without proper testing equipment is not evidence... Believing everything you read on the internet just because it conforms to a preconditioned confirmation bias is not something I adhere to.

More people should share such a similar sentiment.



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curl-6 said:

Looks like Rocket League does boost resolution when docked after all:

https://gonintendo.com/stories/295451-psyonix-talks-about-resolution-differences-for-rocket-league-when

So it looks like your initial interpretation wasn't a concern ... (Doom got a resolution boost in docked mode compared to portable mode and it is more substantial with Rocket League so are Panic Button "crap" developers still ?) 

Last edited by fatslob-:O - on 14 November 2017

curl-6 said:
Miyamotoo said:

If Rocket League have same resolution in portable and docked mode, than my teori is true, if game runs at 720p in portable and docked mode, than they priorite is portable mode with ports and they dont care about docked mode too much. 

Looks like Rocket League does boost resolution when docked after all:

https://gonintendo.com/stories/295451-psyonix-talks-about-resolution-differences-for-rocket-league-when

Than my teori maybe inst correct, from 576p to 720p is not significant jump but its not small one.



Pemalite said:
Shiken said:

Seeing how using our eyes is how we play games, that is what matters.  It is there job to point out where the dips take place, and they tell you it is primarily in Arcade mode.  They are looking for dips using tools that you will not use playing the game.  Furthermore the dips that do come to light is what they will focus on in the article, because that is what they are looking for.

False. We use our eyes to observe our games.
We use our hands to play them.

How a game feels to play doesn't always align with what we observe on the screen.

And I quote Digital Foundry: "During any major firefight, performance can start drop below the 30fps line, leading to a prolonged loss of fluidity." - Digital Foundry's suggestion is to reduce the difficulty in the campaign to get around the issue. (Note: The Arcade is the Campaign with tweaks.)

Note: Shit frame pacing persists regardless of mode, which also directly affects gameplay.

But you have essentially answered my question, that you do not have the tools, you don't have the empirical evidence and thus we should take the evidence that Digital has provided over your assertions.

Shiken said:

So no, they are not lyers.  However their findings are far less relevant that my own personal experience with the game and the experience of people actually playing it as well.

The thing about framerates and framepacing is that... One person isn't going to be as sensitive to it at as the next... Which is WHY you need the appropriate tools in the first place to have a proper representation of such issues.

However, I do have standards, 720P, 1080P, 30fps is rubbish as we enter into 2018, below that is unacceptable in my eyes, if you have lower standards than that, that is also fine.
I would have rather a reduction in visuals for more consistent framerates and a boost to resolution, that is just me though.

Miyamotoo said:

But people in this thread that actually have game are saying that is acceptable and that game runs good even if there are some slow downs.

I tend to believe evidence.
Anecdotal accounts without proper testing equipment is not evidence... Believing everything you read on the internet just because it conforms to a preconditioned confirmation bias is not something I adhere to.

More people should share such a similar sentiment.

720p, 1080p is rubbish going into 2018, FOR A CONSOLE.  Switch is a handheld that can be played on the TV.  It can play current gen console games on the go, with conpensation.

 

This simple fact that you continue to fail to acknowledge is why your logic is heavily flawed, and the majority of people are very satisfied with the port.  It really is that simple.



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Shiken said:

720p, 1080p is rubbish going into 2018, FOR A CONSOLE.  Switch is a handheld that can be played on the TV.  It can play current gen console games on the go, with conpensation.

So. Basically, rather than treat them all equally, you would rather give the Switch special treatment?
Sorry. That is not something I can adhere to, I will treat all platforms the same and hold all platforms to the same standards without exception.
The Switch is a home Console, it has a dock, the fact it doesn't have LTE and only a few hours of battery life also limits it's potential from being a truly mobile device.

The Switch being mobile doesn't mean it's hardware shortcomings should get a free pass either. - Heck, my mobile phone has a 2560x1440P display, why should I tolerate the Switch having less than 1/4th that resolution in games?

Shiken said:

the majority of people are very satisfied with the port.  It really is that simple.

Why should I care how many people are satisfied/dissatisfied with the port? That does not change it's inherent technical shortcomings or what I need/want/expect/desire.

Shiken said:

This simple fact that you continue to fail to acknowledge is why your logic is heavily flawed

It's not that I don't acknowledge it, it is that I have simply discarded it.
Don't like it? Stiff shit. Not my problem. - I have different expectations than you do and they aren't going to change because yours differ from that.



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Digital Foundry will put a PS4 Pro game side by side against an Xbox One X game and commence to telling you details you'd never notice with your naked eyes. Then tell you that one version is good while the other version is rubbish. That's their job and I admit, I love it when they say my version is better or not as bad as I'd been expecting (when it comes to the Switch or the original Xbox One).

It is a little toxic, though. Especially when I end up playing both the good and "bad" versions of the same game and both of them wind up being good. It's gotta suck for developers to pour their heart and soul into a game and then get bashed in forums because "it dips from 30fps to 28fps during cutscenes". We've become performance snobs, turning our noses up at perfectly good games. When the credits roll, I remember the experience and fun. It's okay if you value performance but it's not the "end all be all". Especially if you need a computer to tell you which one sucks.

It's like dating a twin and having a doctor say "her sister has 6% less hair on her vagina" and deciding that your twin sucks. Okay. It's nothing like that. I just wanted to see if I could slip "vagina hair" into a post.

Mission complete!



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So basically the ugliest version with worst performance, less content, released later and currently the most expensive in stores. It's like Switch owners deal with any amount of bullshit just because ''it's portable''.



Pemalite said:
Shiken said:

720p, 1080p is rubbish going into 2018, FOR A CONSOLE.  Switch is a handheld that can be played on the TV.  It can play current gen console games on the go, with conpensation.

So. Basically, rather than treat them all equally, you would rather give the Switch special treatment?
Sorry. That is not something I can adhere to, I will treat all platforms the same and hold all platforms to the same standards without exception.
The Switch is a home Console, it has a dock, the fact it doesn't have LTE and only a few hours of battery life also limits it's potential from being a truly mobile device.

The Switch being mobile doesn't mean it's hardware shortcomings should get a free pass either. - Heck, my mobile phone has a 2560x1440P display, why should I tolerate the Switch having less than 1/4th that resolution in games?

Shiken said:

the majority of people are very satisfied with the port.  It really is that simple.

Why should I care how many people are satisfied/dissatisfied with the port? That does not change it's inherent technical shortcomings or what I need/want/expect/desire.

Shiken said:

This simple fact that you continue to fail to acknowledge is why your logic is heavily flawed

It's not that I don't acknowledge it, it is that I have simply discarded it.
Don't like it? Stiff shit. Not my problem. - I have different expectations than you do and they aren't going to change because yours differ from that.

The battery life is pretty close to the VITA, which is a handheld.  So because it has a dock, it does not qualify?  You are reaching, and laughably at that.

 

Show me a 300 dollar laptop or mobile device that can run DOOM even close to what the Switch does, then you can talk about standards and shortcomings.

 

You have nothing to compare it to, so you are comparing a portable device to a home console.  It honestly just seems to me you are against the Switch.  There is no other reason to crucade the way you are given the facts and nature of the device.  Again, want the full HD version, get it for PS4.  Want a portable version, get it for Switch.  Not that hard of a concept, and both are fully playable.  Just because something does not hit what you desire just because you do not like the nature of the device it is on does not make it a flaw in the port or the Hardware.  It is a personal preference.  You want a console version, so why bash a portable one?

 

It is obvious that you have discarded d the fact that it is a portable device, but that also discards any point to your argument as a whole.  Just because you do not WANT the Switch to be a portable device, does not mean it is not one.  Don't like it?  Stiff shit, not my problem, buy the game elsewhere.  That does not discredit that the Switch version is a fine portable port.

 

And FYI, your standard of 1080p 60fps has never been and never will be what the current base model consoles have put out.  By your logic, the PS4 and X1 were outdated at launch and the X1X and PS4Pro are weak because they fail to do what they set out to, which is native 4k (at 60fps in terms of the X1X).  Oddly enough, the Switch does do what it set out to.  Console quality games on the go with the option to play on your TV AT AN AFFORDABLE PRICE.  So unless you are a PC gamer, you may as well just quit because nothing will ever meet your "standards".

 

Just some food for thought based on your "logic".



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Shiken said: 

Show me a 300 dollar laptop or mobile device that can run DOOM even close to what the Switch does, then you can talk about standards and shortcomings.

This is an even worse comparison between Switch and home consoles. Comparing Switch with PS4/X1 is common sense because it is designed to play games on TV. Only the Switch is more expensive with way worse performance and less content. Laptops are not primarily designed to play games. PCs and laptops need to do a lot more, thus they need to have more components that are not related to gaming. You also wanna compare a $300 washing machine with the Switch? ''But it doesn't even run DOOM''



HintHRO said:
Shiken said: 

Show me a 300 dollar laptop or mobile device that can run DOOM even close to what the Switch does, then you can talk about standards and shortcomings.

This is an even worse comparison between Switch and home consoles. Comparing Switch with PS4/X1 is common sense because it is designed to play games on TV. Only the Switch is more expensive with way worse performance and less content. Laptops are not primarily designed to play games. PCs and laptops need to do a lot more, thus they need to have more components that are not related to gaming. You also wanna compare a $300 washing machine with the Switch? ''But it doesn't even run DOOM''

The Switch is a portable device that can play current gen games on the go WITH THE OPTION to play on the TV when at home.  The PS4 and X1 are devices that can ONLY play games on a TV, and are not portable at all.

 

The PS4/X1 is like an optimized PC, while the Switch is like an optimized tablet optimized for gaming.

 

You want to say my comparisons are bad, then throw out flawed logic like that?  Do you even know what a portable gaming device is?  XD



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