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Forums - Politics Discussion - The Russian Empire vs. the Soviet Union - a geographic/territorial comparison

Slimebeast said:
VGPolyglot said:

What do you think would have happened in Germany won WWII? Certainly Nazism and an even worse Holocaust. And you're saying "our independence" when you're referring to Finland? I thought you were from Sweden? If not, you're a migrant, which is ironic considering that you are against migrants coming. If you consider yourself Swedish, then that means that the Swedish people with foreign ancestry would also be considered Swedish.

My momma is a Finn, by grandfather was a Captain in the Finnish Army during WW2. But myself, I am born in Sweden to a Swedish father.

Finnish culture and Swedish culture are very similar. I'm a second gen migrant statistically, but Im from the same cultural heritage, a group which is very easily assimilated in Scandinavia, unlike people from the third world.

Yeah, when they're treated with disgust and disdain, it's obviously very hard for them to be assimilated.



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This topic even about Russia anymore? If you want to debate, find a suitable thread or post some awesome russian maps about Finland taking back Russia or something :P.

Still pretty interesting that Russia has only gotten smaller over recent years, when you would expect such a large country to be able to exert control like in Crimea.



Farsala said:
This topic even about Russia anymore? If you want to debate, find a suitable thread or post some awesome russian maps about Finland taking back Russia or something :P.

Still pretty interesting that Russia has only gotten smaller over recent years, when you would expect such a large country to be able to exert control like in Crimea.

Well, it depends what you mean by recent I guess, since in 2014 they did annex Crimea.



VGPolyglot said:
Farsala said:
This topic even about Russia anymore? If you want to debate, find a suitable thread or post some awesome russian maps about Finland taking back Russia or something :P.

Still pretty interesting that Russia has only gotten smaller over recent years, when you would expect such a large country to be able to exert control like in Crimea.

Well, it depends what you mean by recent I guess, since in 2014 they did annex Crimea.

I did mention that :P. But yeah I meant since WW2 basically.

An interesting wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_border_changes_since_World_War_I



Farsala said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, it depends what you mean by recent I guess, since in 2014 they did annex Crimea.

I did mention that :P. But yeah I meant since WW2 basically.

An interesting wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_border_changes_since_World_War_I

Oh yeah Well, there is South Ossetia and Abkhazia, I'm not sure if those states will be annexed some day, or if they'll remain as they are in the current status quo.



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Slimebeast said:
Ruler said:

Rightfully so if you advocate nazism, the fins did fend off the Soviets so what is really your point?

I don't necessarily advocate "nazism" and the Holocaust if I wish that Germany had won WW2, just like someone doesn't necessarily advocate communism and the Gulags just because they think the Soviet Army beating Hitler's Germany was important for the outcome of the WW2.

It is true that Finland heroically managed to fend off the Russians in order to preserve our independence, but at a huge cost in loss of manpower, vital territory and enormous war reparations to the Soviet Union for decades to come.

If instead Operation Barbarossa would have been more successfull, Finland would have been able to not just re-conquer and keep the areas that the Soviets unjustly laid claim to in the Winter War of 1939, but we would also have been able to correct a hitorical injustice by liberating all the Finnish tribes living in the Soviet Union, which was about 1 million Finnish people who would have prefered to live in a Finnish state rather than Communist Russia.

 

Yeah and kill off 100 million Russians, Belarusian and other slavic people. What an unjust.

Why arent you liberating your own sami people first if you think you have a moral compass?



VGPolyglot said:

Now, some of the largest contiguous empires in world history were the Russian Empire, and the Soviet Union (well, they claimed to be anti-imperialist, but I am going to call them as such for the sake of this thread). I like reading about Russian history, and since I don't participate in any other forum, I thought it'd be interesting to discuss it here!!

On the other hand, with World War II also came territorial gains for the Soviet Union. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were completely re-incorporated into the Soviet Union. Poland, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Germany and Finland all made territorial concessions in Eastern Europe too. In terms of Asia, the Soviet Union also took the once-disputed Kuril islands, along with South Sakhalin. Tuva, which become a nominally independent country after the collapse of the Qing Dynasty in China, was also incorporated into the Soviet Union during the Second World War.

 

 

Farsala said:
This topic even about Russia anymore? If you want to debate, find a suitable thread or post some awesome russian maps about Finland taking back Russia or something :P.



Here you go. In contrast to the pics above where Soviets have snatched some border areas of Finland in 1940, when the Finns started their counter-offensive into Soviet Union in 1941, with the backing of the German Operation Barbarossa, the dream was to conquer and establish Greater Finland:

But it really depended on the success of the German Operation Barbarossa of course.



Slimebeast said:
VGPolyglot said:

Now, some of the largest contiguous empires in world history were the Russian Empire, and the Soviet Union (well, they claimed to be anti-imperialist, but I am going to call them as such for the sake of this thread). I like reading about Russian history, and since I don't participate in any other forum, I thought it'd be interesting to discuss it here!!

On the other hand, with World War II also came territorial gains for the Soviet Union. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were completely re-incorporated into the Soviet Union. Poland, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Germany and Finland all made territorial concessions in Eastern Europe too. In terms of Asia, the Soviet Union also took the once-disputed Kuril islands, along with South Sakhalin. Tuva, which become a nominally independent country after the collapse of the Qing Dynasty in China, was also incorporated into the Soviet Union during the Second World War.

 

 

Farsala said:
This topic even about Russia anymore? If you want to debate, find a suitable thread or post some awesome russian maps about Finland taking back Russia or something :P.



Here you go. In contrast to the pics above where Soviets have snatched some border areas of Finland in 1940, when the Finns started their counter-offensive into Soviet Union in 1941, with the backing of the German Operation Barbarossa, the dream was to conquer and establish Greater Finland:

But it really depended on the success of the German Operation Barbarossa of course.

So, I'm confused. Is that what you want, then? A "Greater Finland"?



RolStoppable said:
Slimebeast said:

Last I checked Austria is still allowing roughly 100,000 migrants yearly. That's an enormous number considering you only have 85,000 babies born each year, out of which perhaps 60,000 are ethnic Germanic. You are very fast becoming a minority despite your supposed "strict border controls".

It's the same here in Sweden. "Oh but the fugee influx is reduced by 80-90% compared with the open flood gates situation of 2015, and yet +100,000 third wolrd migrants enter our country each year.

I am looking at requests for asylum and from 2006-2013 it was between 10-20k, in 2014 28k, in 2015 88k and in 2016 42k. Of course 2015 is the peak because of Merkel's infamous message, but the change of course in 2016 already led to a drastic reduction.

Apparently only 36k of the 130k requests in 2015 and 2016 were acknowledged as refugees, but I suppose that doesn't mean that the people who got refused were kicked out of the country. Regardless, your numbers aren't based in reality.

Sweden too had asylum requests at the level of 25,000 per year on average for a whole decade before the infamous crisis year 2015. During these years, when we factor relatives and stuff (maybe 40,000 people) being added to those 25,000, believe it or not our migration was +100,000 yearly. Now 25,000 of those might have been on some work permits and student permits, but the vast majority is still from the thirld world. Bottom line is 100,000 third world migrants added each year.

Both Sweden and Austria is slowly going back to the pre-2015 levels with ~25-30000 asylum requests and in both countries there's a (deceptive) public sigh of relief, totally ignorant of the fact that even pre-2015 the migration influx was completely unrealistic and unsustainable.

Despite that the primary asylum requests seem relatively low at 25,000, with relatives + students + work permits, you will still end up with a 100,000 number yearly in Austria too.



VGPolyglot said:
Slimebeast said:



Here you go. In contrast to the pics above where Soviets have snatched some border areas of Finland in 1940, when the Finns started their counter-offensive into Soviet Union in 1941, with the backing of the German Operation Barbarossa, the dream was to conquer and establish Greater Finland:

But it really depended on the success of the German Operation Barbarossa of course.

So, I'm confused. Is that what you want, then? A "Greater Finland"?

It's unrealistic now. But if Germany had had bigger success in the Eastern Front, it could have become a reality.

IMO the outcome of the WW2 brought us a far too strong Soviet Union. A better outcome would have been a limited German victory over the Soviets, but with Soviet Union still keeping its independence in the eastern areas of the union and preserving its indistrial production in Ural, and Finland doing its part to weaken the Soviet super power by conquering vital areas in the West including Leningrad and at the same time establishing itself as a significant regional power.

This would have been much better for the post-WW2 harmony and avoided a cold-war between USA and Soviet Union.