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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Xenoblade Chronicles Series Thread: Definitive Edition (All Spoilers in Tags)

bigtakilla on 29 December 2017
Nuvendil said:
bigtakilla said:

There isn't flat out bad delivery in XC though.

Depends on how you define bad.  For me, it's worse when a line feels like it was read off the script with no knowledge of context and no effort than when a line is flubbed but at least they gave it a shot.  The former is very common in the lower level cutscenes in the first game.  Which is where most the issues in all three games lie, the lower tier cutscenes have a noticeably lower quality standard than the big production ones.  

Fair enough. But even as you have mentioned above, all three games have those scenes. Hell, most games have this problem to some degree.



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bigtakilla on 29 December 2017
sc94597 said:
bigtakilla said:

Well I disagree with you. Dialogue is also good in some areas and downright terrible in other detracting from the stories delivery.

I think people are misremembering most of the voices and dialogue in Xenoblade. With the exception of Melia and Shulk/Alvis/Zanza (except when screaming), most of the voice acting was also mixed. Especially when it came to enemies: particularly the faced Mechon. 

But really what matters to me when it comes to the story are four things: depth, pacing, writing, and uniqueness. In terms of depth: Xenoblade 2 > Xenoblade, pacing: Xenoblade 2 = Xenoblade, writing: Xenoblade 2 = Xenoblade, and uniqueness: Xenoblade 2 = Xenoblade. 

Xenoblade 2's story does the stuff Xenoblade did, but with much more detail. The enemies are fleshed out with back stories, and have motivations that are very human. The party-members also have backstories which are independent of the main character's. The lines between good and evil end blurry, rather than the total 180 from evil to good (or vice-versa) that one finds in some of Xenoblade's baddies and goodguys. So on and so forth. 

That is okay, because Xenoblade was attempting to perfect the Gnostic allegory, whereas the Gnosticism takes a relative back-seat to other themes in Xenoblade 2, although as a Xeno-game it is very much present and prominent.  

Xenosaga was a mess with its pacing, and suffered a lot from this. 

Xenogears excelled in depth, writing, and uniqueness, but also had bad pacing. 

Overall, out of all Xeno-games, I like the balance that exists in Xenoblade 2 between these four categories the most, even if I was more impressed by Xenogears' story when I first played it. 

@ bold: I mean I get it that it does it more in depth, but, well you said it. Also pacing, hell no. Xenoblade > Xenoblade 2, the beginning was turtle paced slow. 

Last edited by bigtakilla - on 29 December 2017

Nuvendil on 29 December 2017
bigtakilla said:
Nuvendil said:

Depends on how you define bad.  For me, it's worse when a line feels like it was read off the script with no knowledge of context and no effort than when a line is flubbed but at least they gave it a shot.  The former is very common in the lower level cutscenes in the first game.  Which is where most the issues in all three games lie, the lower tier cutscenes have a noticeably lower quality standard than the big production ones.  

Fair enough. But even as you have mentioned above, all three games have those scenes. Hell, most games have this problem to some degree.

Most games do but it's not so distracting or egregious. The issue with the Xenoblade games is the extremes.  Look at Skyrim for example.  This issue does exist there but it slips by unnoticed by most because the high points aren't that high and the low points aren't that low.  So yeah, quality descrepencies exist between the important and unimportant dialogue, but the difference is less.  With all 3 Xenoblades, you have this juxtaposition of really good performances with ones that are really wooden or stilted or riddled with odd pauses or devoid of proper inflection.  It's that extreme gap that's so distracting.  And this is fixable, it's just a matter of some more time and money being put in.  They aren't hiring bad actors, they just aren't taking the time to nail it down and not putting in themoney and effort to sync the lips to the dialogue rather than do it backwards.



Jumpin on 29 December 2017

Xenosaga Episode 1 was the worst paced game of the Xenosagas, probably by far. But I also found it by far the most immersive of the three. It’s definitely the one I had the most fun playing (except for the Encephalon, which I have always had issues with). Episode 3 had a lot of big events, but it comes off as a very rigid and unnatural delivery compared to part 1 - it is far from an immersive game. It has the benefit of having the ending of the series and a lot of density in the plot, but it is still overall a much smaller volume of subplots than the first Episode.

In short, I recognize the pacing issues with Xenosaga Episode 1, and how it would turn off a lot, but that’s how art tends to be. To be fair, it wasn’t the long story sequences I found to be trying my patience, it was the longer gameplay segments (particularly the Encephalon). I actually really enjoyed the long cutscenes and longer interactive story segments... I loved wandering around the ships and getting everyone's takes on the events that were occurring, and digging deeper into the story that way. While the delivery wasn’t necessarily the most ideal, I really enjoyed loggin into the UMN and reading all the articles on everything; it reminded me a little of the historical logs in Final Fantasy Tactics and Ogre Battle 64, as well as Selphie’s blogs on Final Fantasy 8 (I am willing to bet that’s where Takahashi got the idea - since FF6, 8, and Chrono Trigger we’re fairly big influences on his work... although, since he was on the design team for all three games, the similar stuff in those games may actually be his concepts/work).



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

bigtakilla on 29 December 2017
Nuvendil said:
bigtakilla said:

Fair enough. But even as you have mentioned above, all three games have those scenes. Hell, most games have this problem to some degree.

Most games do but it's not so distracting or egregious. The issue with the Xenoblade games is the extremes.  Look at Skyrim for example.  This issue does exist there but it slips by unnoticed by most because the high points aren't that high and the low points aren't that low.  So yeah, quality descrepencies exist between the important and unimportant dialogue, but the difference is less.  With all 3 Xenoblades, you have this juxtaposition of really good performances with ones that are really wooden or stilted or riddled with odd pauses or devoid of proper inflection.  It's that extreme gap that's so distracting.  And this is fixable, it's just a matter of some more time and money being put in.  They aren't hiring bad actors, they just aren't taking the time to nail it down and not putting in themoney and effort to sync the lips to the dialogue rather than do it backwards.

I'm just trying to figure out what point in Xenoblade was really that distractingly low. I wouldn't say there is a part that was delivered so flat as even the "Arrow to the knee" delivery.



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Jumpin on 30 December 2017

In a future game, if they ever do anything like Merc missions again, I HOPE it is something that can be played offline or even with a companion mobile app. Like a casual game. I really like it as an easy way to grind while not paying attention to the Swtich. What I don't like is how you have to have the Switch on... especially for the Ursula quests, which I essentially do while I am doing other things.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Cerebralbore101 on 31 December 2017
Jumpin said:
In a future game, if they ever do anything like Merc missions again, I HOPE it is something that can be played offline or even with a companion mobile app. Like a casual game. I really like it as an easy way to grind while not paying attention to the Swtich. What I don't like is how you have to have the Switch on... especially for the Ursula quests, which I essentially do while I am doing other things.

The portable aspect of the system definitely helps with that though. For my second playthrough I'll be taking the Switch with me, and just letting merc missions + Pouch item refills tick away. That and leaving the Switch on overnight with 2 hour long merc missions queued up. Easy affinity charts, ideas, and Ursala missions. 



Lonely_Dolphin on 31 December 2017
Jumpin said:
In a future game, if they ever do anything like Merc missions again, I HOPE it is something that can be played offline or even with a companion mobile app. Like a casual game. I really like it as an easy way to grind while not paying attention to the Swtich. What I don't like is how you have to have the Switch on... especially for the Ursula quests, which I essentially do while I am doing other things.

Did your game ever crash when you went to play it again after leaving the Switch on overnight? That happened to me a couple times, with the first time costing me 6 hours of progress... (Admittedly I'm a dummy for not saving before going to bed, but eh)

They should never do anything like this again period imo. All forms of progression should be through methods that are fun (such as actually playing the game) and don't take insane amounts of time.



Jumpin on 01 January 2018
Lonely_Dolphin said:
Jumpin said:
In a future game, if they ever do anything like Merc missions again, I HOPE it is something that can be played offline or even with a companion mobile app. Like a casual game. I really like it as an easy way to grind while not paying attention to the Swtich. What I don't like is how you have to have the Switch on... especially for the Ursula quests, which I essentially do while I am doing other things.

Did your game ever crash when you went to play it again after leaving the Switch on overnight? That happened to me a couple times, with the first time costing me 6 hours of progress... (Admittedly I'm a dummy for not saving before going to bed, but eh)

They should never do anything like this again period imo. All forms of progression should be through methods that are fun (such as actually playing the game) and don't take insane amounts of time.

Nah, I haven't seen a crash yet, but I'm not too worried either, I have a multi-decade-long habit of saving every 10 minutes :P

The only Switch game to ever crash on me was Golf Story, which I think crashed a few times. I believe Stardew Valley might have crashed, but I may be remembering Golf Story since I was playing both games at the same time for quite awhile.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin on 01 January 2018
Cerebralbore101 said:
Jumpin said:
In a future game, if they ever do anything like Merc missions again, I HOPE it is something that can be played offline or even with a companion mobile app. Like a casual game. I really like it as an easy way to grind while not paying attention to the Swtich. What I don't like is how you have to have the Switch on... especially for the Ursula quests, which I essentially do while I am doing other things.

The portable aspect of the system definitely helps with that though. For my second playthrough I'll be taking the Switch with me, and just letting merc missions + Pouch item refills tick away. That and leaving the Switch on overnight with 2 hour long merc missions queued up. Easy affinity charts, ideas, and Ursala missions. 

It helps, but I am a little uncomfortable keeping the screen on while I wait. I would prefer it to be more like mobile where the timers still account for sleep mode and hit you with notifications when they expire.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.