By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics - What is a political issue that you want to understand the opposite viewpoint more?

Bandorr said:
Dulfite said:
The problem with even attempting to try to understand another person's point of view is that we think, in our heads, it just comes down to logic that we can all make sense of. Many, if not most humans, have some kind of guiding moral code or religious beliefs that they justify their political stances on. We all vary, and those guiding codes we follow dictate stances on political issues. But, let's be more specific since I know myself best and my own beliefs:

English Standard Version
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14

English Standard Version
"For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

I don't expect a non believer to be able to "get" my thought process, that would be stupid of me to expect that. That can be, and has been, frustrating at times as I try to explain things out, but it just doesn't happen. And my belief system guides my political views:

I'm against abortion because I know we are created by God.
I believe homosexuality as a sin beacause God says so over and over again in the Bible.
I believe the poor should be helped more than they are now (a view I didn't used to have).
I know God loves all people, not just certain races/genders.

One that I have become convicted by recently is this verse:
English Standard Version
Leviticus 19:34
"You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God."

It doesn't say "freak out because they might be terrorists" (which is what my brain tells me to do) or "refuse them entry into your country because they don't speak English" or even "Don't allow anyone who isn't a believer in." There aren't conditions to loving on people that come from a far away land, and I've been challanged as of late to love these people far, far more than I have been (love is a verb, not a state of emotions).

There are countless stances on political issues I have that are rooted in Christianity, so if someone doesn't have those same roots as I do, I can't really expect them to be able to understand my perspective. Likewise, I won't be able to understand the perspective of someone who isn't a believer, because I accepted Christ so very long ago I can't even remember what it is like to not have HIM as my savior and perfect model of how to live.

"I'm against abortion because I know we are created by God. "You don't know that. You believe that. That belief is not based on evidence, or science. Logic or reason. It is based on your belief and only your belief.

The same with "I believe homosexuality as a sin beacause God says so over and over again in the Bible.". You aren't against homosexuality. You believe it is wrong - because of the bible. If it said it was ok you'd be for it.

You show no reason or logic for or against it. It is I believe it says this, so I believe it.

Those are viewpoints that can't be argued or discussed. You believe it, thus it is.

Well yes I do know, but to others that would just be perceived as belief or illogical, so sure we will call it belief if that makes you happy.

And it is true that my beliefs are based off Scripture.



Around the Network
Dulfite said:
VGPolyglot said:

God also told someone to kill their child as a test, so can't you come to the same possibility that he says homosexuals are bad as a test to see whether or not their unfairly discriminate against a group just because he says so?

Ah Cherry picking without context. HE clearly stopped it from happening, was just testing his faith. As for your second statement, I really don't quite understand what you mean by it? Would you mind clarifying?

Yeah, but it also shows that you shouldn't just blindly do what he tells you, because he could possibly be attempting to deceive you. The question also is why he would test in such an extreme manner in the first place, rather than say tell the person to do a handstand.



JWeinCom said:
Dulfite said:
The problem with even attempting to try to understand another person's point of view is that we think, in our heads, it just comes down to logic that we can all make sense of. Many, if not most humans, have some kind of guiding moral code or religious beliefs that they justify their political stances on. We all vary, and those guiding codes we follow dictate stances on political issues. But, let's be more specific since I know myself best and my own beliefs:

English Standard Version
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14

English Standard Version
"For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

I don't expect a non believer to be able to "get" my thought process, that would be stupid of me to expect that. That can be, and has been, frustrating at times as I try to explain things out, but it just doesn't happen. And my belief system guides my political views:

I'm against abortion because I know we are created by God.
I believe homosexuality as a sin beacause God says so over and over again in the Bible.
I believe the poor should be helped more than they are now (a view I didn't used to have).
I know God loves all people, not just certain races/genders.

One that I have become convicted by recently is this verse:
English Standard Version
Leviticus 19:34
"You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God."

It doesn't say "freak out because they might be terrorists" (which is what my brain tells me to do) or "refuse them entry into your country because they don't speak English" or even "Don't allow anyone who isn't a believer in." There aren't conditions to loving on people that come from a far away land, and I've been challanged as of late to love these people far, far more than I have been (love is a verb, not a state of emotions).

There are countless stances on political issues I have that are rooted in Christianity, so if someone doesn't have those same roots as I do, I can't really expect them to be able to understand my perspective. Likewise, I won't be able to understand the perspective of someone who isn't a believer, because I accepted Christ so very long ago I can't even remember what it is like to not have HIM as my savior and perfect model of how to live.

Not to interrupt your sermon here, but it should be REALLY easy for you to imagine what it's like for non-Christians.

Just imagine that a Muslim is insisting that you need to live by the laws of the Quran because they know that Mohammed is the one true prophet of Allah.  

You know perfectly well what it's like to not believe in a religion.  Shouldn't be too much of a stretch to imagine others feeling that way towards yours.

I said someone who isn't a believer (short for "believer in Christ"). Not religion in general.



Ka-pi96 said:
Dulfite said:

Now let's not jump to conclusions! I never said I was against gay marriage as a right. In fact, I don't think the government should have any say in marriage (it shouldn't be a government related thing at all). I used to be against gay marriage, but now I view marriage as something only God can do (people can call it marriage, but that doesn't make it marriage in my mind). I never said I wanted legislation.

Then it seems like it's not really a political issue for you so it shouldn't really be a problem

It is in the sense that I want legislation or the courts to rule that governments have no right to establish what a marriage is. But I see your point.



Not really a desire to learn more but I've come to understand that in a lot of ways white supremasists/"nationalists" and religious radicals/jihadists are kindred spirits. They're basically the different sides of the exact same coin.

It's largely awkward men who aren't really the "winners" in life who are easily indoctrinated because such a movement suddenly not only makes them feel like they belong. Suddenly they get a rush of "power" when they are pushed an identity that they are actually part of an "elite" group and everyone else is beneath them. It's very attractive to a guy who's going nowhere in life, didn't get laid much in high school, didn't have many friends, etc. etc. etc.

I think largely speaking that is the recruiting base by and large for both groups. The ideology is almost in some cases a secondary thing, the feeling of "belonging" is a powerful draw to a person, particularily men for whatever reason, that don't fit into societal social groups very well otherwise. For men I think for whatever reason, belonging to a social group/peer group is extremely important to self worth. When you don't have it there is a deep-seated feeling of frustration and shame I think for whatever reason. 

The irony is these two groups would hate each other, but on a personal level, a lot of these guys are mirror images of each other, they just happened to be born in a different part on the map and got indoctinated into that designated group. 



Around the Network
Zkuq said:
palou said:
Here's a surely controversial one: I would like a detailed explanation on why freedom of speech, or rather, the freedom to spread information, should be *unquestionable*. I agree that letting people say and hear what they want is a net positive, in most cases, but I have some difficulty with it being used as an *axiom*, to which one can refer oneself as absolute truth.

I'm not in your target group, but my impression is that basically limiting freedom of speech is seen as a slippery slope. 


I feel that, looking at history, this is strictly untrue. Minor infringment on freedom of speech doesn't precede, or indicate a slippery slope into totalitarianism. Pre-Nazi Germany had free speech, almost all of the rights to censor were applied in a single day.

You require a sound justification, explanation for any infringment on freedom of speech - and it seems to me that it wouldn't create much more of a slippery slope than anything else. It's, to me, just as bad of an argument as saying that banning hard opioids will lead to the ban of alcohol, saying that allowing 18 year olds to vote will lead to toddlers making decisions in the country. 



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

Dulfite said:
JWeinCom said:

Not to interrupt your sermon here, but it should be REALLY easy for you to imagine what it's like for non-Christians.

Just imagine that a Muslim is insisting that you need to live by the laws of the Quran because they know that Mohammed is the one true prophet of Allah.  

You know perfectly well what it's like to not believe in a religion.  Shouldn't be too much of a stretch to imagine others feeling that way towards yours.

I said someone who isn't a believer (short for "believer in Christ"). Not religion in general.

Uhhhhh... Don't know what that has to do with anything.  I'll try rephrasing.

You know what it's like not to accept another person's particular set of religious beliefs.  Others feel the same way about your set of religious beliefs, whether they are atheists, muslims, or whatever.



How can people support a political view that not only does not benefit themselves, but also hurts many, many people. Taking away health care that is very adequate is a perfect example. Agreeing with tax cuts on wealthy while you are working class and will see tax rises or wage cuts or the removal of jobs domestically is another example.

My biggest one right now is trying to understand why people will work harder to avoid a legitimate sociopolitical issue than just addressing it head on and resolving it. Police violence (saying there is other violence is not in any way a solution to that specific problem. It is, at best, excusing the topic. It also falls into the supporting a group that you are not part of with no benefit to you), kneeling in protest (It became about military and a flag but that is because people want to avoid the actual issue. However, more than a year later, the topic is more prominent than if they had just addressed it a year ago and moved on), black lives matters (they are a terrorist organization akin to the KKK according to some people. Sure, that is for the most part completely unfounded, but you know... lets run from the issues they are actually trying to present and re-victimize the victims), and the treatment of Muslims/Arabs (do I even need to explain?) are all examples of this. Why not just attack the issues specifically head on and make the country better. Avoiding the problems presented, especially by re-victimizing the victims, does not go unnoticed and in case you are unaware, it has never made things better.



01000110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01001001 01111001 01101111 01101100 01100001 01101000 00100001 00100000 01000110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01000101 01110100 01100101 01110010 01101110 01101001 01110100 01111001 00100001 00100000

Dulfite said:
VGPolyglot said:

God also told someone to kill their child as a test, so can't you come to the same possibility that he says homosexuals are bad as a test to see whether or not their unfairly discriminate against a group just because he says so?

Ah Cherry picking without context. HE clearly stopped it from happening, was just testing his faith. As for your second statement, I really don't quite understand what you mean by it? Would you mind clarifying?

Why does faith need to be tested by an omniscient being?



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

Dulfite said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

How does that affect your political views? Are you against gay marriage? If so, why should atheists be able to marry but not gay people?

Why should abortions not occur just because we are created by god?

I guess I should have been more specific on this. I figured by not saying anything about marriage, people would understand that I don't want legislation on this. I think marriage should not be a government controlled thing period.

And as for abortions, I believe God creates human life to live and come to know HIM.

Well that's selfish of god. Creating people without thinking that in fact, they may not have the desire to carry an offspring - let alone the offspring having a desire to live.