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Forums - Sales Discussion - Media Create/Famitsu/Dengeki - 11th - 17th Sept 2017

Kerotan on 24 September 2017
SuperNova said:
Kerotan said:

Instead of bringing up a past ban why don't you put together a good argument to counter my very valid point. 

It's probably because the_dengle, who is the person Jranation quoted, put toghether an excellent counter to your point, wich you've obviously seen, considering that you've responded to someone who quoted him, but have yet to respond to.

He also posted an excellent follow-up as to why simply adding 3DS+WiiU=marketshare is a fallacy, among other things based on the sheer amount of 3DS SKUs and by that double and tripple dippers.

To be honest, even if the Switch somehow ends up beating the DS and becoming Nintendos bestselling console or even the bestselling console of all time, I fully expect someone (not you Kero) to come out of the woodwork and claim that it's actually a loss for Nintendo because Wii+Ds did 250m. This argument has been and will continue to be used to downplay the Switch, wether you personally intend to or not.

I was actually traveling home from a holiday in Greece and never read his post.  

 

And if it did did beat the DS people analysing the market would be entitled to point out it's not their best ever position in the market because their total console sales are not at their peak.  

 

Same as if Sony outsell ps2 you can point out there was a time when they had the PSP and PS2 on the market at the same time. Only solace for Sony is they only had a brief stint with handhelds whereas Nintendo have a long history of having both home console and portable on the market at the same time. I 



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Goodnightmoon on 24 September 2017
Kerotan said:
SuperNova said:

It's probably because the_dengle, who is the person Jranation quoted, put toghether an excellent counter to your point, wich you've obviously seen, considering that you've responded to someone who quoted him, but have yet to respond to.

He also posted an excellent follow-up as to why simply adding 3DS+WiiU=marketshare is a fallacy, among other things based on the sheer amount of 3DS SKUs and by that double and tripple dippers.

To be honest, even if the Switch somehow ends up beating the DS and becoming Nintendos bestselling console or even the bestselling console of all time, I fully expect someone (not you Kero) to come out of the woodwork and claim that it's actually a loss for Nintendo because Wii+Ds did 250m. This argument has been and will continue to be used to downplay the Switch, wether you personally intend to or not.

I was actually traveling home from a holiday in Greece and never read his post.  


And if it did did beat the DS people analysing the market would be entitled to point out it's not their best ever position in the market because their total console sales are not at their peak.  

 

Same as if Sony outsell ps2 you can point out there was a time when they had the PSP and PS2 on the market at the same time. Only solace for Sony is they only had a brief stint with handhelds whereas Nintendo have a long history of having both home console and portable on the market at the same time. I 

Congrats for your trip but you do this constantly, you ignore the good arguments and then put an excuse for ignoring them while still ingnoring them



SuperNova on 24 September 2017
Kerotan said:
SuperNova said:

It's probably because the_dengle, who is the person Jranation quoted, put toghether an excellent counter to your point, wich you've obviously seen, considering that you've responded to someone who quoted him, but have yet to respond to.

He also posted an excellent follow-up as to why simply adding 3DS+WiiU=marketshare is a fallacy, among other things based on the sheer amount of 3DS SKUs and by that double and tripple dippers.

To be honest, even if the Switch somehow ends up beating the DS and becoming Nintendos bestselling console or even the bestselling console of all time, I fully expect someone (not you Kero) to come out of the woodwork and claim that it's actually a loss for Nintendo because Wii+Ds did 250m. This argument has been and will continue to be used to downplay the Switch, wether you personally intend to or not.

I was actually traveling home from a holiday in Greece and never read his post.  

 

And if it did did beat the DS people analysing the market would be entitled to point out it's not their best ever position in the market because their total console sales are not at their peak.  

 

Same as if Sony outsell ps2 you can point out there was a time when they had the PSP and PS2 on the market at the same time. Only solace for Sony is they only had a brief stint with handhelds whereas Nintendo have a long history of having both home console and portable on the market at the same time. I 

I'd suggest you read them then.

Any further discussion of anything I said later in my post is pointless if you're not up to speed.



Kerotan on 24 September 2017
Goodnightmoon said:
Kerotan said:

I was actually traveling home from a holiday in Greece and never read his post.  


And if it did did beat the DS people analysing the market would be entitled to point out it's not their best ever position in the market because their total console sales are not at their peak.  

 

Same as if Sony outsell ps2 you can point out there was a time when they had the PSP and PS2 on the market at the same time. Only solace for Sony is they only had a brief stint with handhelds whereas Nintendo have a long history of having both home console and portable on the market at the same time. I 

Congrats for your trip but you do this constantly, you ignore the good arguments and then put an excuse for ignoring them while still ingnoring them

The mods can verify if they want where my posts over the last 2 weeks came from.  It is not an excuse I was away travelling,  it is fact. 



Kerotan on 24 September 2017
the_dengle said:
Kerotan said:

Calm down there. 

 

I said if Nintendo want to prevent their gaming market size from declining they need to match those sales combined.  I never said it can't be a success if it sells less.  

 

And considering Switch has the ability to sell numbers equal to the combined totals it's definitely a fair comparison to make.  They are combined platforms into 1 after all. 

This is still dumb and nonsensical. Imagine a company manufactures separate refrigerators and freezers. They sell 500 freezers but only 100 refrigerators. Then they start making joint fridge/freezer units, and sell 550 of those. How can you make the case their “market size” declined without knowing the overlap between fridge & freezer buyers? If 60 of their sold fridges were bought by people who had also bought a freezer, their products were in 540 houses, not 600. They actually expanded their market with the new product.

Suppose also that freezers cost $170 and were sold at a loss while fridges cost $300 and were also sold at a loss, and that the new combined units were sold for a profit for $300. While not strictly related to market share, that would be a pretty significant detail to consider when evaluating the market’s response to these products. It would demonstrate, for example, that 600 sales of the older products (several of those being to repeat customers) would not be preferable to 550 sales of the new product, as not only would the market for accessories to these products be larger, but a greater profit would be made up-front.

That's one of the downsides to going the hybrid route.  They've basically accepted they can no longer do a handheld and a home console and have to accept the negative effect of both userbases consolidating.  That down side is a number of over lapping consumers will now only buy 1 console instead of 2.

 

So while their actual consumers stay the same (possibly),  the size of their market might shrink.  Now I can counter this with the Switch might be appealing enough as the amalgamation of 2 platforms to actually gain new consumers that a handheld or console on their own wouldn't have attracted. 

 

This is a positive in this comparison.  People think this is a play to try and say Nintendo's market continues to shrink but in reality the Switch has a fair chance to increase it. 

 

It's basically a gen over gen comparison for the company.  This gens handheld + portable (Switch)  vs last gens handheld + portable (Wii U/3DS). 

 

Same as you could say ps4 will be hoping to beat vita + ps3 by selling over 100m. Another comparison I think is fair and which it could pull off. 



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StarDoor on 24 September 2017
Kerotan said:

Same as you could say ps4 will be hoping to beat vita + ps3 by selling over 100m. Another comparison I think is fair and which it could pull off. 

You're kidding, right? PSV is in the same generation as PS4. If you actually wanted to be consistent, then you would compare PSV + PS4 against PSP + PS3. According to the same standard that you hold Switch to, PS4 needs to sell around 150M so that it and PSV can beat the 168M of PSP and PS3 combined.



AngryLittleAlchemist on 24 September 2017
Ka-pi96 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Goddamnit. It's frustrating, I want Nintendo to succeed but ... Pokemon needs to stop outselling the numerous better series out there.

Pokemon hasn't outsold a single better series though...

I meant to post this on the COMG thread, lol



AngryLittleAlchemist on 24 September 2017
Ka-pi96 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

I meant to post this on the COMG thread, lol

It would still be true there. Pokemon doesn't ever outsell better series, just myriad inferior ones

If you don't think Final Fantasy 9 is better than Pokemon, then I don't know what to tell you, that's just your incorrect wrong taste.



the_dengle on 24 September 2017
Kerotan said:

And if it did did beat the DS people analysing the market would be entitled to point out it's not their best ever position in the market because their total console sales are not at their peak.  

 

Same as if Sony outsell ps2 you can point out there was a time when they had the PSP and PS2 on the market at the same time. Only solace for Sony is they only had a brief stint with handhelds whereas Nintendo have a long history of having both home console and portable on the market at the same time. I 

Measuring the success of a company by hardware sales without pausing to consider what they represent is stupid. Let’s count NES and SNES Classic with the Switch since they’re consoles sold alongside it. And since the PS2 and PSP can be counted together, why not count 3DS and Switch together? They are all on the market at the same time.

But of course since Sony only had a “brief stint” of 13 years with handhelds they aren’t held to the same standard.

You should have ended this post after the first sentence. Instead you had to ruin it with this shit.



AngryLittleAlchemist on 24 September 2017
Ka-pi96 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

If you don't think Final Fantasy 9 is better than Pokemon, then I don't know what to tell you, that's just your incorrect wrong taste.

Well I have 0 FF9 plushies and dozens of Pokemon plushies so....

But you do have a ff9 body pillow, which is made about the same material as dozens of pokemon