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Forums - Politics - World gone mad: Music conductor fired for making racist joke even though "victim" says no.

AsGryffynn said:

That's not flattering to communists of any kind. This red thinks so... 

Seriously, what the hell is up? I did participate in a party where I did blackface by bathing in oil... Does that mean I am racist even though I have too many black friends to count in one hand and they were the ones who organized said event? 

Or should I point out one of those involved was also a Shia and we are still close? 

you probably are racist, yes, as every person on the planet is racist to some degree

the key is to accept that this part of you exists and actively be alerted when you feel it surface/influence your thoughts and actions, so that you can work against it

a huge part of the people unfortunately deny with all their might that they have racist tendencies sometimes (especially as when these are called out it's seen as this ginormous "insult" to your person), so instead of reflecting about it they double down

now about blackface - I understand why it's seen as a huge racial afront (especially in the US), as black people had for decades to powerlessly watch themselves being humiliated by white actors in blackface acting absolutely braindead, yet personally I didn't grow up in a society where this topic is so very emotionally charged, that's why I think whether or not it's "absolutely racist" really depends on intention and your intention at that party wasn't to put down your friends/black people in general

maybe in a some decades or centuries it will be understood this way throughout the world, yet the wounds are still open and black people understandably don't want to leave backdoors for racists to further abuse the practice



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AsGryffynn said:
contestgamer said:

Wow, that's so wrong. I cant believe you would admit to that kind of behavior in pbulic. Everyone makes mistakes, but you don't even seem to acknowledge how deplorable that was.

Even though no one cared, not even three black friends of which two were among the organizers? It was not something to mock black people. I literally covered myself in oil for a performance along with five other dancers. We had to use motor oil to look black, whereas other performers used red dye. The result was black and red people dancing with each other on stage. 

Seriously. How the hell is this a negative thing? 

By doing what you did you were mocking black people, whether you meant to or not. The historical significance of black face is deeply negative and you doing black face is almost the same as you saying the N word out loud for the duration that you wore it. How others reacted to you is not relevant, the action on its own merits is deeply racist.



Lafiel said:
AsGryffynn said:

That's not flattering to communists of any kind. This red thinks so... 

Seriously, what the hell is up? I did participate in a party where I did blackface by bathing in oil... Does that mean I am racist even though I have too many black friends to count in one hand and they were the ones who organized said event? 

Or should I point out one of those involved was also a Shia and we are still close? 

you probably are racist, yes, as every person on the planet is racist to some degree

the key is to accept that this part of you exists and actively be alerted when you feel it surface/influence your thoughts and actions, so that you can work against it

a huge part of the people unfortunately deny with all their might that they have racist tendencies sometimes (especially as when these are called out it's seen as this ginormous "insult" to your person), so instead of reflecting about it they double down

now about blackface - I understand why it's seen as a huge racial afront (especially in the US), as black people had for decades to powerlessly watch themselves being humiliated by white actors in blackface acting absolutely braindead, yet personally I didn't grow up in a society where this topic is so very emotionally charged, that's why I think whether or not it's "absolutely racist" really depends on intention and your intention at that party wasn't to put down your friends/black people in general

maybe in a some decades or centuries it will be understood this way throughout the world, yet the wounds are still open and black people understandably don't want to leave backdoors for racists to further abuse the practice

As a whole, we also didn't have a racist disposition here in Spain. Here it's just make up. If the Americans do find it offensive, then that's their problem for mocking blacks. Here I've seen white people use it to dress as one of the Three Wise Men when black actors are absent. People like this. And no, it's not comedy. 



Aeolus451 said:
contestgamer said:

Cultural appropriation does represent juistice and fainess. Don't hijack other peoples cultures. It's a simple rule. It's not divisive, it's anti-divisive. The only people that consider it divisive are racists who want to destroy other cultures by mixing them with their own.

 

First of all, don't call anyone that disagree with it or you, a racist when they're actually not. Frankly, that's fucked up because you're calling me a racist in a roundabout way and it's intellectually lazy of you to resort to insults like to discredit opinions you disagree with.

We live in a world where traveling to other countries is fairly easy and convenient. People from many different cultures live with eachother in many different countries. It's impossible for these cultures not to intermingle or people to take in traits from cultures that surround them or that they like. If you want to adhere to this nonsense "rule", by all means have at it but don't try to push that crazy shit on other people. 

 

I wasnt calling you racist, although I can see how you might have construed it that way. I suppose I'll ammend my original post with "racist or ignorant". And yes, we need to push basic decency on other people. That's what we do with the N word, that's what we do with the nazi symbols, etc. This is the same thing. You "push" people to be decent. 



contestgamer said:
AsGryffynn said:

Even though no one cared, not even three black friends of which two were among the organizers? It was not something to mock black people. I literally covered myself in oil for a performance along with five other dancers. We had to use motor oil to look black, whereas other performers used red dye. The result was black and red people dancing with each other on stage. 

Seriously. How the hell is this a negative thing? 

By doing what you did you were mocking black people, whether you meant to or not. The historical significance of black face is deeply negative and you doing black face is almost the same as you saying the N word out loud for the duration that you wore it. How others reacted to you is not relevant, the action on its own merits is deeply racist.

Refer to post where I say I am not American, it's not seen as racist here and people do it at times yet no black people feel offended because in our society we didn't mock black people to the point they wanted to set their eyes on fire back when YOUR people were debating whether they should have rights or not. 

I am not in America and thus your values do not apply to me. I understand this much. 



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AsGryffynn said:
contestgamer said:

By doing what you did you were mocking black people, whether you meant to or not. The historical significance of black face is deeply negative and you doing black face is almost the same as you saying the N word out loud for the duration that you wore it. How others reacted to you is not relevant, the action on its own merits is deeply racist.

Refer to post where I say I am not American, it's not seen as racist here and people do it at times yet no black people feel offended because in our society we didn't mock black people to the point they wanted to set their eyes on fire back when YOUR people were debating whether they should have rights or not. 

I am not in America and thus your values do not apply to me. I understand this much. 

That's different, fair enough. But if you were American it would be deeply offensive. 



....Halls and Mobley had been chatting at a reception held last month during this year’s Oregon Bach Festival, when the subject turned to a concert in London in which Mobley had performed.
The singer, who was born and raised in the southern state of Florida, said the concert had an “antebellum” feel to it, of the sort associated with Gone With the Wind and other rose-tinted representations of the pre-Civil War south.
In response Mobley says that Halls “apologised on behalf of England”, before putting on an exaggerated southern accent and joking: “Do you want some grits?”, in a reference to the ground corn dish popular in the south.
“I’m from the deep south and Matthew often makes fun of the southern accent just as I often make fun of his British accent,” said Mobley. “Race was not an issue. He was imitating a southern accent, not putting on a black accent, and there was nothing racist or malicious about it.”
White woman overheard the joke and decided it was racist.


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contestgamer said:
DonFerrari said:

So one friend mocking another in one case because of British accent and the other because of southern accent deserve to be demissed? Gotcha, plenty of justice and fairness.

What they did is normnalizing racism. A real racist could not make fun of accents under the guise that these "non racists" did it. I'm for equality and fairness - if someone can't do it, then no one can do it.

So why haven't the other friend that made joke about the british accent weren't fired them? As you said, if it's valid for one it should be enforced on the other.

sethnintendo said:
I want to hear the joke. Just says he did a southern accent.

The joke? He offered a traditional southern dish to his black friend using a southern accent (with no direct inflection of being a dialect or accent that would be used by black people instead of white people). So there were no joke, just mock on accent that both done to one another.



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contestgamer said:
Aeolus451 said:

First of all, don't call anyone that disagree with it or you, a racist when they're actually not. Frankly, that's fucked up because you're calling me a racist in a roundabout way and it's intellectually lazy of you to resort to insults like to discredit opinions you disagree with.

We live in a world where traveling to other countries is fairly easy and convenient. People from many different cultures live with eachother in many different countries. It's impossible for these cultures not to intermingle or people to take in traits from cultures that surround them or that they like. If you want to adhere to this nonsense "rule", by all means have at it but don't try to push that crazy shit on other people. 

 

I wasnt calling you racist, although I can see how you might have construed it that way. I suppose I'll ammend my original post with "racist or ignorant". And yes, we need to push basic decency on other people. That's what we do with the N word, that's what we do with the nazi symbols, etc. This is the same thing. You "push" people to be decent. 

That's the very same arguement alot of religious people use as a jusitification to push their beliefs on others. You and other progressives are doing the same thing. If people in general are not cool with religious people doing that then they sure as shit won't let progressives do it. Culture apporation is a warped concept on being decent and if you want to believe that, fine, do it for yourself but it has no business being pushed to become a normal thing.



DonFerrari said:
contestgamer said:

What they did is normnalizing racism. A real racist could not make fun of accents under the guise that these "non racists" did it. I'm for equality and fairness - if someone can't do it, then no one can do it.

So why haven't the other friend that made joke about the british accent weren't fired them? As you said, if it's valid for one it should be enforced on the other.

sethnintendo said:
I want to hear the joke. Just says he did a southern accent.

The joke? He offered a traditional southern dish to his black friend using a southern accent (with no direct inflection of being a dialect or accent that would be used by black people instead of white people). So there were no joke, just mock on accent that both done to one another.

 

Its not racist if it's directed towards a group in power - white british cannot cry racism because they are the oppressors.