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Forums - Politics Discussion - World gone mad: Music conductor fired for making racist joke even though "victim" says no.

DonFerrari said:

Even when there is no joke? Even when the other part didn't said "it didn't bothered me" but "it wasn't racism", and someone that wasn't even of that race decided by herself that it was racist and needed the person to lose his job?

The issue as I have told before is show on the college over-reacting, doing a kneejerk reaction to fire the person and then having to make a deal with the person to not escalate the problem. Even when you can fire without reason, if you give reason and it's prosecution you will face problems.

And again you go there and ignore what you can't take back. You compared someone being fired for someone else "interpretation" of a remark as racist (white against black) to a reprimend of a real case of prejudice (someone vs redneck) and put on same level.

PC isn't about making the environment better to everyone, it's about prosecuting against those the movement disagree. We have had several cases of people making remarks on one side being demonized, but when the other side makes similar remarks they will get apologetical and say about there is no reverse racism, there is no prejudice against the ones in power, and even if let's say a feminist bad mouth a black men the movement will just pretend nothing happened because they are friends.

In Brazil we had a politician being prosecuted because he said his adversary DIDN'T deserve to be rapped (this adversary was defending two rappist saying they were victms of society and as such didn't deserve to be in jail, and also accused the other politician of being a rapist himself), the same people that defended his prosecution just shut down when a teacher begged that someone rapped a journalist. In case you need clarification the prosecuted politician was related to right wing the adversary was a left wing politician, the teacher was left wing oriented and the journalist right wing oriented.

So the madworld the OP talks about is basically this. For one side it will make every single innocent remark into a criminal offense while making the criminal behaviour on the other side a minor mischeave.

Doesn't have to be a joke, it only have to be a demeaning representation of someone, race, culture, religion, physical and mental abilities, ascent.  It does not have to bother the other person it was directed at.  If someone over hears your conversation and get offended and its determined that what you were discussing fall under what is deemed inappropriate then yes, you can find yourself without a job.  The reason this is not news is because this is nothing new.  It’s not like this is a new policy, this has been policy for decades.  So yes, you have to be careful what you say when you are at your place of work.  



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Machiavellian said:
DonFerrari said:

Even when there is no joke? Even when the other part didn't said "it didn't bothered me" but "it wasn't racism", and someone that wasn't even of that race decided by herself that it was racist and needed the person to lose his job?

The issue as I have told before is show on the college over-reacting, doing a kneejerk reaction to fire the person and then having to make a deal with the person to not escalate the problem. Even when you can fire without reason, if you give reason and it's prosecution you will face problems.

And again you go there and ignore what you can't take back. You compared someone being fired for someone else "interpretation" of a remark as racist (white against black) to a reprimend of a real case of prejudice (someone vs redneck) and put on same level.

PC isn't about making the environment better to everyone, it's about prosecuting against those the movement disagree. We have had several cases of people making remarks on one side being demonized, but when the other side makes similar remarks they will get apologetical and say about there is no reverse racism, there is no prejudice against the ones in power, and even if let's say a feminist bad mouth a black men the movement will just pretend nothing happened because they are friends.

In Brazil we had a politician being prosecuted because he said his adversary DIDN'T deserve to be rapped (this adversary was defending two rappist saying they were victms of society and as such didn't deserve to be in jail, and also accused the other politician of being a rapist himself), the same people that defended his prosecution just shut down when a teacher begged that someone rapped a journalist. In case you need clarification the prosecuted politician was related to right wing the adversary was a left wing politician, the teacher was left wing oriented and the journalist right wing oriented.

So the madworld the OP talks about is basically this. For one side it will make every single innocent remark into a criminal offense while making the criminal behaviour on the other side a minor mischeave.

Doesn't have to be a joke, it only have to be a demeaning representation of someone, race, culture, religion, physical and mental abilities, ascent.  It does not have to bother the other person it was directed at.  If someone over hears your conversation and get offended and its determined that what you were discussing fall under what is deemed inappropriate then yes, you can find yourself without a job.  The reason this is not news is because this is nothing new.  It’s not like this is a new policy, this has been policy for decades.  So yes, you have to be careful what you say when you are at your place of work.  

So a white person thinking that what another white man talked with his black friend is an indicative of racism even when the black friend says it isn't... and you think that is normal? You do know that the way it was held the claim could even be false and the person lose his job over a lie right? You do know that is why there are laws against false crime report.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Machiavellian said:

Doesn't have to be a joke, it only have to be a demeaning representation of someone, race, culture, religion, physical and mental abilities, ascent.  It does not have to bother the other person it was directed at.  If someone over hears your conversation and get offended and its determined that what you were discussing fall under what is deemed inappropriate then yes, you can find yourself without a job.  The reason this is not news is because this is nothing new.  It’s not like this is a new policy, this has been policy for decades.  So yes, you have to be careful what you say when you are at your place of work.  

So a white person thinking that what another white man talked with his black friend is an indicative of racism even when the black friend says it isn't... and you think that is normal? You do know that the way it was held the claim could even be false and the person lose his job over a lie right? You do know that is why there are laws against false crime report.

Who said anything about racism.  I said if someone found it offensive and if it was inappropriate behavior at work no matter what the 2 party believed was the case, then you can be terminated.  It does not matter if the person was white, black, Asian you name it.  For some reason you think it’s about what you believe or feel but it’s not.  It's what your job has stated is appropriate or not.  What most people do not know is that little handbook that says what is appropriate and what is not and your state rights.  Most corporations have extensive video on the subject so there are clear guidelines on the subject.  The only reason this is even made news is because it was white/black.

People lose their job over lies all the time.  As I stated, it’s up to this person to defend himself over the issue and to ligate over wrongful termination.  In some states you do have this right in the US and in some like Ohio you do not.  



Machiavellian said:
DonFerrari said:

So a white person thinking that what another white man talked with his black friend is an indicative of racism even when the black friend says it isn't... and you think that is normal? You do know that the way it was held the claim could even be false and the person lose his job over a lie right? You do know that is why there are laws against false crime report.

Who said anything about racism.  I said if someone found it offensive and if it was inappropriate behavior at work no matter what the 2 party believed was the case, then you can be terminated.  It does not matter if the person was white, black, Asian you name it.  For some reason you think it’s about what you believe or feel but it’s not.  It's what your job has stated is appropriate or not.  What most people do not know is that little handbook that says what is appropriate and what is not and your state rights.  Most corporations have extensive video on the subject so there are clear guidelines on the subject.  The only reason this is even made news is because it was white/black.

People lose their job over lies all the time.  As I stated, it’s up to this person to defend himself over the issue and to ligate over wrongful termination.  In some states you do have this right in the US and in some like Ohio you do not.  

OP is about racism.

Yes I'm aware of the handbooks, my company have one and we follow it.

Yes people are terminated for lies and in this case there was no process, just express termination, reason for the post to exist.

Yes there would be litigation, so the school preferred to pay to settle.

So basically we saw that it was a very dumb decision that costed the school a employee, money and possibly some of its name. So it was very badly handed.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Machiavellian said:

Who said anything about racism.  I said if someone found it offensive and if it was inappropriate behavior at work no matter what the 2 party believed was the case, then you can be terminated.  It does not matter if the person was white, black, Asian you name it.  For some reason you think it’s about what you believe or feel but it’s not.  It's what your job has stated is appropriate or not.  What most people do not know is that little handbook that says what is appropriate and what is not and your state rights.  Most corporations have extensive video on the subject so there are clear guidelines on the subject.  The only reason this is even made news is because it was white/black.

People lose their job over lies all the time.  As I stated, it’s up to this person to defend himself over the issue and to ligate over wrongful termination.  In some states you do have this right in the US and in some like Ohio you do not.  

OP is about racism.

Yes I'm aware of the handbooks, my company have one and we follow it.

Yes people are terminated for lies and in this case there was no process, just express termination, reason for the post to exist.

Yes there would be litigation, so the school preferred to pay to settle.

So basically we saw that it was a very dumb decision that costed the school a employee, money and possibly some of its name. So it was very badly handed.

The OP made it about racism, but the actual situation is not.  The situation is about someone making comments that were deemed inappropriate and was fired.  Whether the person was wrongly fired, setup or anything along those lines is for a court to determine.  This is nothing new or even worth the evening news.  Most companies do not need a due process as I have stated many times, it depends on the state.  If anything, maybe the school wanted to fire this guy and found something they could use.  If its wrongful termination and you are in a state that respect that, you can sue, if not you just move on and fine a new job.

The fact of the matter is that people are fired like this all the time.  They say things believing it’s innocent because no one was hurt or I was just making a joke or it’s between my friend and I.  After you have been through these situations, you know to keep them far away from your job.  What the guy said was considered a racial slur.  Could it be considered as such, yes.  Is it a termination offense depends on the company but the key hear is not what he said was offensive to the person he was talking to, if what you say can be offensive to anyone leave it at home, do not say it out loud, do not email it on company computers etc. 

As for ligation because Oregon is an Employment at Will state there will be none.  This means companies can fire you for absolutely no reason.  The school really lost nothing because this is not big news.



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Machiavellian said:
DonFerrari said:

OP is about racism.

Yes I'm aware of the handbooks, my company have one and we follow it.

Yes people are terminated for lies and in this case there was no process, just express termination, reason for the post to exist.

Yes there would be litigation, so the school preferred to pay to settle.

So basically we saw that it was a very dumb decision that costed the school a employee, money and possibly some of its name. So it was very badly handed.

The OP made it about racism, but the actual situation is not.  The situation is about someone making comments that were deemed inappropriate and was fired.  Whether the person was wrongly fired, setup or anything along those lines is for a court to determine.  This is nothing new or even worth the evening news.  Most companies do not need a due process as I have stated many times, it depends on the state.  If anything, maybe the school wanted to fire this guy and found something they could use.  If its wrongful termination and you are in a state that respect that, you can sue, if not you just move on and fine a new job.

The fact of the matter is that people are fired like this all the time.  They say things believing it’s innocent because no one was hurt or I was just making a joke or it’s between my friend and I.  After you have been through these situations, you know to keep them far away from your job.  What the guy said was considered a racial slur.  Could it be considered as such, yes.  Is it a termination offense depends on the company but the key hear is not what he said was offensive to the person he was talking to, if what you say can be offensive to anyone leave it at home, do not say it out loud, do not email it on company computers etc. 

As for ligation because Oregon is an Employment at Will state there will be none.  This means companies can fire you for absolutely no reason.  The school really lost nothing because this is not big news.

How is a southern accent a racial slur? Grits are not a racial slur either.

I could understand if he said something like Watermelon, Fried Chicken or grape juice. But a southern accent and grits are just pure South, white, black, mexican, ect. Might as well say someone is racists for saying somethign in another language if we start doing that.



irstupid said:
Machiavellian said:

The OP made it about racism, but the actual situation is not.  The situation is about someone making comments that were deemed inappropriate and was fired.  Whether the person was wrongly fired, setup or anything along those lines is for a court to determine.  This is nothing new or even worth the evening news.  Most companies do not need a due process as I have stated many times, it depends on the state.  If anything, maybe the school wanted to fire this guy and found something they could use.  If its wrongful termination and you are in a state that respect that, you can sue, if not you just move on and fine a new job.

The fact of the matter is that people are fired like this all the time.  They say things believing it’s innocent because no one was hurt or I was just making a joke or it’s between my friend and I.  After you have been through these situations, you know to keep them far away from your job.  What the guy said was considered a racial slur.  Could it be considered as such, yes.  Is it a termination offense depends on the company but the key hear is not what he said was offensive to the person he was talking to, if what you say can be offensive to anyone leave it at home, do not say it out loud, do not email it on company computers etc. 

As for ligation because Oregon is an Employment at Will state there will be none.  This means companies can fire you for absolutely no reason.  The school really lost nothing because this is not big news.

How is a southern accent a racial slur? Grits are not a racial slur either.

I could understand if he said something like Watermelon, Fried Chicken or grape juice. But a southern accent and grits are just pure South, white, black, mexican, ect. Might as well say someone is racists for saying somethign in another language if we start doing that.

Exactly my point.  You just threw out some things like Watermelon, Fried Chicken, grape juice (no) grape juice coolaid(yes).  Now you can throw grits in the mix.  The fact you can understand those other words could be considered a slur, why does Grits make any difference.  Everyone eats watermelon, fried chicken and grape juice coolaid besides black people.  How did those get the negative connotations associated with blacks.



Machiavellian said:
irstupid said:

How is a southern accent a racial slur? Grits are not a racial slur either.

I could understand if he said something like Watermelon, Fried Chicken or grape juice. But a southern accent and grits are just pure South, white, black, mexican, ect. Might as well say someone is racists for saying somethign in another language if we start doing that.

Exactly my point.  You just threw out some things like Watermelon, Fried Chicken, grape juice (no) grape juice coolaid(yes).  Now you can throw grits in the mix.  The fact you can understand those other words could be considered a slur, why does Grits make any difference.  Everyone eats watermelon, fried chicken and grape juice coolaid besides black people.  How did those get the negative connotations associated with blacks.

Holleywood made those racists. You can thank them through their movies and stuff that stereotyped it.

Grits is purely a southern thing. 100% location, not race. The three things I listed apply to all areas. If someone says grits, no one thinkgs black, white, mexican, straight, bi, tri, whatever. THey think 100% the south. A regional food. That's it. Be like if someone made a crack at MN and said hotdish. Or in this case, since the guy was British the other guy could have said something about scones or tea or something. Not racists, making fun of a region.



irstupid said:
Machiavellian said:

Exactly my point.  You just threw out some things like Watermelon, Fried Chicken, grape juice (no) grape juice coolaid(yes).  Now you can throw grits in the mix.  The fact you can understand those other words could be considered a slur, why does Grits make any difference.  Everyone eats watermelon, fried chicken and grape juice coolaid besides black people.  How did those get the negative connotations associated with blacks.

Holleywood made those racists. You can thank them through their movies and stuff that stereotyped it.

Grits is purely a southern thing. 100% location, not race. The three things I listed apply to all areas. If someone says grits, no one thinkgs black, white, mexican, straight, bi, tri, whatever. THey think 100% the south. A regional food. That's it. Be like if someone made a crack at MN and said hotdish. Or in this case, since the guy was British the other guy could have said something about scones or tea or something. Not racists, making fun of a region.

Why do you believe Grits mean south.  I live in Ohio and grits are big here.  Actually a lot of northern states grits is popular.  The same thing you labeled as making something southern which is movies also does the same with certain foods, drinks you name it.  So would you say if the music professor did the same accent to a white person from the South would it be considered a slur for southern redneck.

The point still remains, in corporate America its best to just not go there period.  I know I do this all the time with New York or Boston accents but I never do it at work.  I just do not know how it will go down with certain people so instead of being in an HR room trying to explain myself.  As I stated before, I have been here myself and the leason I learned is to just not do anything remotely could be construed or making fun of anything.  Its not worth it.



Machiavellian said:
irstupid said:

Holleywood made those racists. You can thank them through their movies and stuff that stereotyped it.

Grits is purely a southern thing. 100% location, not race. The three things I listed apply to all areas. If someone says grits, no one thinkgs black, white, mexican, straight, bi, tri, whatever. THey think 100% the south. A regional food. That's it. Be like if someone made a crack at MN and said hotdish. Or in this case, since the guy was British the other guy could have said something about scones or tea or something. Not racists, making fun of a region.

Why do you believe Grits mean south.  I live in Ohio and grits are big here.  Actually a lot of northern states grits is popular.  The same thing you labeled as making something southern which is movies also does the same with certain foods, drinks you name it.  So would you say if the music professor did the same accent to a white person from the South would it be considered a slur for southern redneck.

The point still remains, in corporate America its best to just not go there period.  I know I do this all the time with New York or Boston accents but I never do it at work.  I just do not know how it will go down with certain people so instead of being in an HR room trying to explain myself.  As I stated before, I have been here myself and the leason I learned is to just not do anything remotely could be construed or making fun of anything.  Its not worth it.

Considering your own admission of companies care for image even what you say and do outside the company could be used against you.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."