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Forums - Politics - World gone mad: Music conductor fired for making racist joke even though "victim" says no.


Leadified said:

Yes I do, and naturally they will use similar methods because each had a similar goal in mind: to extinguish dissidents and maintain total control. Control will not vary much based on your political leanings.

Now then, that creates another problem, because both the Soviet Union and Nazy Germany considered themselves socialist. If we are to believe their rhetoric, they can't both be correct, or else they wouldn't be on opposite sides of the scale. So, either one of them is manipulating the working class with socialist rhetoric in order to keep their support, or both of them are.

If you consider socialism in all forms in opposition to capitalism (in theory) then sure you can put Nazi Germany on the same level as the USSR on the far left. This is more of an issue on how you base your scale rather both states calling themselves socialist.



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Leadified said:

Now then, that creates another problem, because both the Soviet Union and Nazy Germany considered themselves socialist. If we are to believe their rhetoric, they can't both be correct, or else they wouldn't be on opposite sides of the scale. So, either one of them is manipulating the working class with socialist rhetoric in order to keep their support, or both of them are.

If you consider socialism in all forms in opposition to capitalism (in theory) then sure you can put Nazi Germany on the same level as the USSR on the far left. This is more of an issue on how you base your scale rather both states calling themselves socialist.

We shouldn't judge the USSR and Nazi Germany on theory though, since they were the regimes in power. It makes much more sense to base them on their actual policies.



Leadified said:
Aeolus451 said:

lol "No we arent authoritarians like the far right are" then in the very next line he says "They'll be reeducated over time....". I guess he has no self-awareness huh? i don't know if he's being serious or not with this stuff.

It's a good argument for the horseshoe theory.

Horse shoe theory all depends on how you define 'left' and 'right'. I follow the understanding that left means big government and right means small government. Far right is anarchy, far left is totalitarianism. Both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union were dependent on big government.

If you let the government get big enough, someone will always use it as a club to beat down their opposition. I'm a 'minimum government necessary' kind of guy. 



contestgamer said:
Aeolus451 said:

Dictating how everyone lives by use of force, punishment and "re-education" is, bud. That's exactly what you're pushing for. 

There's no intent to dictate how people live. That's like saying that by making murder illegal we're dictating how people can live, because now they cant murder others. No, the goal is common sense standards and laws that protect citizens. That's it. You just need to follow those laws, which you're already supposed to be doing with existing ones that weren't made by progressives or authoratarians. We will greatly expand those laws to protect even more vulnerable people.

That's a lie or you're contradicting yourself. You've been contradicting yourself alot throughout this thread. You were just talking about reeducating people, not kids if they break the law on offending people. Stop trying to reword something when you've been called out on it to make it sound not so bad. You want to force people to live by the standards that progressives would set forth by turning those standards into laws which people will punished or re-educated if they disobey or disagree. What happens when people break those laws repeatedly? What happens if they just say no to you doing anything with their kids? What happens if they just won't play by the new rules? What happens if they protest in mass? You're gonna force them into doing what you want. It's simple as that.

How do you think authortarian governments become what they are? They have to slowly change things and convince people to give them more power until they have enough to do what they want. It's a trinkle. It's lightly and slowly done so people won't notice. You were just talking about when progressives gain enough power, what your little group will do with it. 



VGPolyglot said:
Leadified said:

If you consider socialism in all forms in opposition to capitalism (in theory) then sure you can put Nazi Germany on the same level as the USSR on the far left. This is more of an issue on how you base your scale rather both states calling themselves socialist.

We shouldn't judge the USSR and Nazi Germany on theory though, since they were the regimes in power. It makes much more sense to base them on their actual policies.

While I agree that reality triumphs ideology, that implies that "far left/right" are meaningless in the long term since those states will naturally begin to moderate.



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DonFerrari said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, certain races are defined by religous beliefs, such as the Croats, Serbs and Bosniaks, so it would not be surprising that if every other race was exterminated, that the race left would be reclassified and further dvivided into other races.

IN Brazil left wing is all about dividing in subgroups and further subgroups to keep a class fight.

That is very much what America has been doing for a while now. It started back first when it was the 99% vs. the 1% (still around, sometimes I heard 98%) but they slowly are just grouping everyone. Everyone HAS to have a label, well unless you committed a crime, then no label cause that would be racist. (unless your white)

VGPolyglot said:
Locknuts said:

Well Marxism is based on class struggle: a revolution against the elites within society. With those in power now on the left, a new type of Marxism has formed: one based on identity politics (race, gender etc) in order for the elites to remain protected from the revolution prescribed by Marx. They are mostly adherents of Marxism, but are now the Animal Farm pigs.

 

"With those in power now on the left" yes, because Donald Trump/the Republicans in the US, and the Conservatives in the UK can really be considered to be on the left.

Leadified said:

You lost me at the whole reeducation part. I can understand what you're trying to say by teaching kids how to behave but you're reeducating adults simply based on "offense" is a sure fire way to create an authoritarian state.

Yes I do, and naturally they will use similar methods because each had a similar goal in mind: to extinguish dissidents and maintain total control. Control will not vary much based on your political leanings.

Now then, that creates another problem, because both the Soviet Union and Nazy Germany considered themselves socialist. If we are to believe their rhetoric, they can't both be correct, or else they wouldn't be on opposite sides of the scale. So, either one of them is manipulating the working class with socialist rhetoric in order to keep their support, or both of them are.

I think many believe that the media and many corporations are more in power than anybody in office.



Locknuts said:
Leadified said:

It's a good argument for the horseshoe theory.

Horse shoe theory all depends on how you define 'left' and 'right'. I follow the understanding that left means big government and right means small government. Far right is anarchy, far left is totalitarianism. Both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union were dependent on big government.

If you let the government get big enough, someone will always use it as a club to beat down their opposition. I'm a 'minimum government necessary' kind of guy. 

On a minarquist point of view, for me both Nazism and Communism are totalitarian governemnt that go against minorities, control market and society and are similar in most of their actions.

There is a reason why classic liberals want less power to the government, because the tendency of governments is to become bigger and corrupter.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

VGPolyglot said:
Locknuts said:

Well Marxism is based on class struggle: a revolution against the elites within society. With those in power now on the left, a new type of Marxism has formed: one based on identity politics (race, gender etc) in order for the elites to remain protected from the revolution prescribed by Marx. They are mostly adherents of Marxism, but are now the Animal Farm pigs.

 

"With those in power now on the left" yes, because Donald Trump/the Republicans in the US, and the Conservatives in the UK can really be considered to be on the left.

Haha Trump wasn't supposed to happen and that's what makes his presidency so enjoyable to watch. He is the Marxist revolution against the elites! He had to be wealthy to fund his own campaign for presidency but he's not one of them.....yet.

You haven't noticed the elites in academia, the mainstream media and Hollywood attacking Trump every chance they get? They still hold the balance of power in the country but it would be wonderful to see it come to an end, but they are getting to him. I fear soon Trump will become part of the swamp.



irstupid said:
DonFerrari said:

IN Brazil left wing is all about dividing in subgroups and further subgroups to keep a class fight.

That is very much what America has been doing for a while now. It started back first when it was the 99% vs. the 1% (still around, sometimes I heard 98%) but they slowly are just grouping everyone. Everyone HAS to have a label, well unless you committed a crime, then no label cause that would be racist. (unless your white)

VGPolyglot said:

"With those in power now on the left" yes, because Donald Trump/the Republicans in the US, and the Conservatives in the UK can really be considered to be on the left.

Now then, that creates another problem, because both the Soviet Union and Nazy Germany considered themselves socialist. If we are to believe their rhetoric, they can't both be correct, or else they wouldn't be on opposite sides of the scale. So, either one of them is manipulating the working class with socialist rhetoric in order to keep their support, or both of them are.

I think many believe that the media and many corporations are more in power than anybody in office.

Yep... here is quite crazy... left guys ask for rappist and muderers to be freed because they are oppresed minorities and ask to send to jail someone that made a joke that they thought is racist...

Well, yes and no... big corporations get in bed with government and that is a very big talk point on not wanting anyone to have too much power.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
irstupid said:

That is very much what America has been doing for a while now. It started back first when it was the 99% vs. the 1% (still around, sometimes I heard 98%) but they slowly are just grouping everyone. Everyone HAS to have a label, well unless you committed a crime, then no label cause that would be racist. (unless your white)

I think many believe that the media and many corporations are more in power than anybody in office.

Yep... here is quite crazy... left guys ask for rappist and muderers to be freed because they are oppresed minorities and ask to send to jail someone that made a joke that they thought is racist...

Well, yes and no... big corporations get in bed with government and that is a very big talk point on not wanting anyone to have too much power.

I think its the best argument for limited terms. Presidents are good in that they can only be there for 8 years, 2 terms, but congress... You can have someone in their seat for like 60 years. If you don't think that someone holding some position in government for that long won't have some sort of shady deals, backhanded stuff, connections, helping out friends/relatives, ect.

Even if the person wants to be as ethical as they can be, in a position such as they will HAVE to deal with big corps in stuff. They will then build a relationship with that person and that relationship will subconsciously alter how their position is in regards to that person later.