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Forums - Nintendo - DigitalFoundry: Mario+Rabbids Battle Kingdom A Superb Switch Tech Showcase!

caffeinade said:

Days Gone, Hellblade, Kingdom Hearts 3, Final Fantasy 7 Remake, Fortnite are all just going to have to suck on consoles then...

Odd that a Sony studio would pick UE4 over one of their in house engines...

Hellblade is linear, KH3 is meh worthy if KH 2.8 is anything to go by on the PS4 Pro, FFVIIR already has framerate problems on base PS4 and Fortnite has mediocre graphics with framerate problems as well ... (just an engine with poor performance all around) 

SIE Bend Studio is too small of a team to deal with complex engines like most of the other in-house engines for games as complex as Days Gone plus UE4 had the most mature content production pipeline too at the time where the game started full production (2015) ... 

I sincerely hope that Epic Games along with UE4 crawl to it's cave where it came from and never see the light of day again and also hope that other western AAA devs will improve their japanese documentation for their engines so that AAA japanese devs will ditch UE4 and use those instead ... 

I have nothing against UE4 in the same vein as Unity since they both have their own use cases but Epic Games shouldn't try to advertise their engine as being console quality when it's clearly the 'McDonald's' of all engines ... (Or maybe that title goes to Unity, heck if I care either way) 



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Goodnightmoon said:

For God sake, Digital Foundry, experts on this 

And not once did I disagree with Digital Foundry.

Goodnightmoon said:

and you come acting like that wasn't enough for your superior standars and saying that it looks like a game from 2002

I didn't state it looked like a game from 2002.

In-fact I praised it's presentation. How you came to this conclusion beats me.

Goodnightmoon said:

no it doesn't, those graphics at 600p with good antialiasing on a 6.2" screen looks completely awesome

I personally think High-Definition or less is simply unacceptable, regardless if your screen size is 4" or 75", this isn't news, I have voiced my stance on this for years even before the Switch launched. My view hasn't changed.

Goodnightmoon said:

and those drops are rare

Thanks for agreeing with me.

Goodnightmoon said:

doesn't affect the gameplay experience at all because of the nature of the game and they may be patched on the future, so it just feels like you want to be negative, why don't you take a look to the extremelly fast and rare loading times, which will affect your gameplay WAY more than minor drops on a turn based strategy game?

I am not being negative, I am providing criticism where criticism is due.
Don't like it? Stiff. That isn't my problem.

Goodnightmoon said:

600P on a small screen looks better than 900P on a big screen TV. I have yet to play a Switch game that looks better on TV than on my TV.

That is actually a false assertion.

It is entirely dependent on:
1) Your own vision.
2) Display type. (I.E. Sub-pixel arrangements and so on.)
3) Distance from the display.

VGPolyglot said:
The game does look great, it makes me excited to see what Nintendo themselves can come up with once they reach the Switch's true potential.

Indeed, it does have a great presentation.
It makes you wonder what Switch games will look like in a couple years time.

sc94597 said:

You know enough about technology to know this is not an apples to apples comparison. That a game like Soul Caliber 2 might have ran at 720p on Xbox means very little when it looked like this and the overall image quality was measurably worse due to other features (texture filtering, anti-aliasing, etc.) 

<SNIP>



I am not criticising the games presentation or graphics.
I am criticising the games resolution. And ONLY the resolution.

sc94597 said:

The pixel density of 600p on a six inch screen is much greater than 900p on say the 42" 4k television I play on, and it shows when playing the game. You notice the flaws much less when playing on a handheld two feet away from your eyes versus a television eight feet away.

We're talking 192.42 PPI vs. 43.71 PPI (in my case), and the latter upscales much worse than the previous. I'd take the first any day of the week.

I have a 5.7" screen on my phone. It has a resolution of 1440P. It is glorious, it is sharp, it looks amazing.
Don't assume I am ignorant to resolutions on smaller devices, I'm not.

Besides. You need to take into account the distance you sit from the displays, something I alluded to above.

sc94597 said:


And for a more apples to apples comparison, the PS VITA ran its games at 540p, and the PS3, XB360, and Wii U had many sub-HD titles going well below 600p and were intended to be played on large screens.

 Not sure if you can recall my statements from that generation... But I also complained about the resolution of titles on console.

sc94597 said:


Sure, the Switch in handheld mode is more powerful than these platforms in the ways that matter, but not a generation leap over them, just as XBO has some 720p titles, and PS4/XBO have many 900p/sub-900p titles it makes sense that ambitious titles on the Switch will go under 720p in handheld mode if they are trying to push the platform in console mode, real-world performance doesn't always scale linearly and an optimization on console mode might not be so optimized in handheld mode.

I simply would have preferred a native resolution of 720P. Even if that meant a cutback to another area.
That doesn't mean the game looks bad, it doesn't.


fatslob-:O said:

Meh, it's a turn based game where there's lot's of close ups with the camera and doesn't feature dense geometry ... 

Aliasing and framerate drops aren't much of an issue ... 

I disagree.
The framerate drops would probably be a problem if they were more frequent though or you had large and long panning shots, which the game generally doesn't, so it can get away with it.

I just want the increase in resolution just for clarity and sharpness.

caffeinade said:

It could be worse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk8GnaaRkT4
Ark is not even able to hit 720p30 on the "powerful" consoles.

That's shit too.





www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Looks so cute



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

Pemalite said:

I disagree.
The framerate drops would probably be a problem if they were more frequent though or you had large and long panning shots, which the game generally doesn't, so it can get away with it.

I just want the increase in resolution just for clarity and sharpness.

Actually for turn based games I think 20FPS would suffice ... (with turn based games you don't have to worry about precision, controls or the rate of information you get) 

You only have to worry about what to do for your own turn (can be as long as it takes) so animating the game at 20FPS seems adequate ... 

Higher resolution is nice but Battle Kingdom doesn't have a lot of subpixel geometry or draw distance to make best use of higher clarity, if Battle Kingdom did have high draw distance and lot's of pubpixel geometry then it'd be a different case but there's enough sample points to draw and accurately represent almost every polygon mesh you see in the game ... 



fatslob-:O said:

Actually for turn based games I think 20FPS would suffice ... (with turn based games you don't have to worry about precision, controls or the rate of information you get) 

You only have to worry about what to do for your own turn (can be as long as it takes) so animating the game at 20FPS seems adequate ... 

Higher resolution is nice but Battle Kingdom doesn't have a lot of subpixel geometry or draw distance to make best use of higher clarity, if Battle Kingdom did have high draw distance and lot's of pubpixel geometry then it'd be a different case but there's enough sample points to draw and accurately represent almost every polygon mesh you see in the game ... 

Nah. 20FPS is a dogs breakfast. No thanks. You do have allot of panning of the map, 20fps would look juddery. 30fps is the minimum, 60fps would be ideal.

You also don't need allot of subpixel geometry or draw distance to take advantage of a higher resolution, it's been 20~ years where I have been gaming on PC at a higher resolution than this game, games weren't always as complex and well presented as Battle Kingdom.

Keen to see what Ubisoft does with the Snowdrop engine going forward on Switch, if this game is any representation of what to expect, then expect some good things.

This console generation could be a "Battle of the game engines".
Frostbite vs Snowdrop vs iD Tech 6 vs Unreal Engine 4 vs CryEngine 5 vs Unity vs Source2. So great not having 99.999% of games using Unreal Engine 3.




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That... actually looks great and even looks fun. Surprised.



Pemalite said:
fatslob-:O said:

Actually for turn based games I think 20FPS would suffice ... (with turn based games you don't have to worry about precision, controls or the rate of information you get) 

You only have to worry about what to do for your own turn (can be as long as it takes) so animating the game at 20FPS seems adequate ... 

Higher resolution is nice but Battle Kingdom doesn't have a lot of subpixel geometry or draw distance to make best use of higher clarity, if Battle Kingdom did have high draw distance and lot's of pubpixel geometry then it'd be a different case but there's enough sample points to draw and accurately represent almost every polygon mesh you see in the game ... 

Nah. 20FPS is a dogs breakfast. No thanks. You do have allot of panning of the map, 20fps would look juddery. 30fps is the minimum, 60fps would be ideal.

You also don't need allot of subpixel geometry or draw distance to take advantage of a higher resolution, it's been 20~ years where I have been gaming on PC at a higher resolution than this game, games weren't always as complex and well presented as Battle Kingdom.

Keen to see what Ubisoft does with the Snowdrop engine going forward on Switch, if this game is any representation of what to expect, then expect some good things.

This console generation could be a "Battle of the game engines".
Frostbite vs Snowdrop vs iD Tech 6 vs Unreal Engine 4 vs CryEngine 5 vs Unity vs Source2. So great not having 99.999% of games using Unreal Engine 3.

Don't forget the Road Hog Engine, that is very impressive for a small team.
Xenko looks to be promising and Lumberyard may evolve into something pretty cool too.



caffeinade said:

Don't forget the Road Hog Engine, that is very impressive for a small team.
Xenko looks to be promising and Lumberyard may evolve into something pretty cool too.

I could have been here for the next 6 months listing engines. Haha

The more engines the Switch supports the better in my eyes, means more multiplats.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Pemalite said:
caffeinade said:

Don't forget the Road Hog Engine, that is very impressive for a small team.
Xenko looks to be promising and Lumberyard may evolve into something pretty cool too.

I could have been here for the next 6 months listing engines. Haha

The more engines the Switch supports the better in my eyes, means more multiplats.

Now if only we had a high quality FOSS engine.

I just hope that the Switch does not end up limiting the PC version of the games.
My hope is that because the Switch is not very powerful, companies will do what EA are doing with Fifa and make a custom version of their games.
Leaving only the limitations on the PS4 / XOne for the PC version.



caffeinade said:
Pemalite said:

I could have been here for the next 6 months listing engines. Haha

The more engines the Switch supports the better in my eyes, means more multiplats.

Now if only we had a high quality FOSS engine.

I just hope that the Switch does not end up limiting the PC version of the games.
My hope is that because the Switch is not very powerful, companies will do what EA are doing with Fifa and make a custom version of their games.
Leaving only the limitations on the PS4 / XOne for the PC version.

Many engines are scalable and very few games are doing stuff with systems and gameplay that wasn't possible last gen anyway.  If the devs use a good engine and do it right, a Switch version could exist and not limit the PC or PS4 versions.