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Forums - Politics Discussion - Many Google employees disagree with the firing of the memo writer

WolfpackN64 said:
DarthMetalliCube said:

This recent strain of anti-intellectualism by these regressives are just baffling to me. The guy's memo was based completely on science.. but no, burn him at the stake for going against the narrative! And even if the memo stated things that are untrue, it absolutely did not warrent his firing. Free speech is hanging be a thread at this point. Regressives are officially the modern day version of the evangelical bible thumping book burners. Our society is going insane.

As someone quite firlmy on the left side of the politcal spectrum, I can say Google's descision to oust one person over an internal memo that wasn't even that harsh is just ludicrous. And there are many things to be said about Mr. Demore's memo (I don't fully agree, and many of his points are very semi-scientific), but this kind of "progressive geasture" by Google is just a tad too overblown to be sincere.

Reading the memo, agree or not with it, it was a thought out, well documented, well written memo. It was not some hate filled, sloppy, expletive email attacking anyone. Its goal, as it said many times in the memo, was to create a discussion and address some issues within the company that this one employee believes are present. I imagine every employer in the world wishes they had employees that would bring issues they believe are present in the workplace to their attention versus just going home/bar and bitching about it. Or worse, blasting it on social media for all the world to see.

Once again, one needs to reiterate that it was an INTERNAL memo. If anyone should be fired it should be the one who leaked it to the public. They are the ones that, memo true of workplace or not, gave Google bad publicity.



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irstupid said:

Reading the memo, agree or not with it, it was a thought out, well documented, well written memo. It was not some hate filled, sloppy, expletive email attacking anyone. Its goal, as it said many times in the memo, was to create a discussion and address some issues within the company that this one employee believes are present. I imagine every employer in the world wishes they had employees that would bring issues they believe are present in the workplace to their attention versus just going home/bar and bitching about it. Or worse, blasting it on social media for all the world to see.

Once again, one needs to reiterate that it was an INTERNAL memo. If anyone should be fired it should be the one who leaked it to the public. They are the ones that, memo true of workplace or not, gave Google bad publicity.

If anything, it's funny that the most prominent big data company in the world can't even stop internal memo's from going public, let alone have a decent response to it instead of this overblown, dramatic scene they made out of it.



the-pi-guy said:

I really don't get the point.  What's so wrong with initiatives to increase diversity?  

Whether something is bad for business, doesn't matter.  It's ulimately the company's decision.   Considering this is google, I highly doubt it's actually hurting their business all that much...  

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-diversity-makes-us-smarter/

There's actually a lot of studies that show diversity is actually a powerful tool.  It actually improves the majority as well.  So if Google is hiring a slightly less qualified employee to increase diversity, that might end up being the better hire, because it'll also improve everyone else's performance.  There are a lot of studies that support that.  

Was the memo right?  Not really.  

Was Google right in firing him?  I don't know.  The answer is probably though.  Who knows how keeping him under their employ would have affected his coworkers, I don't think it would have been positive for Google.  

So you're saying it's ok to discriminate based on race or sex?



Ka-pi96 said:

Didn`t you know? The left is the pro racism/sexism side.

Oh please, don't turn this into that debate? That's topic hijacking.



I haven't read the memo. I have read a few quotes. I should read the memo because the characterizations that I've read about it seems a lot more severe than the actual quotes I've read. But the quotes might not be giving the full gist of the memo while the characterizations do. Don't know yet.

But from what I can tell so far the guy was kinda right about why there aren't as many women in tech, because they aren't drawn to those kind of jobs as much as men are. The characterizations of the memo said he was saying that women actually biologically are worse at the jobs, rather than just not being as drawn to those jobs. If it was the former then the author obviously should be fired, that's not the kind of person anyone should have to work with, but if it is the latter then he was just saying what is pretty obvious.

Though I got the feeling he was also saying that means there should be no diversity effort and its cool and even good if tech workers in America just stay mostly white men. And he seemed to be basically crying because he doesn't work in a field that agrees with his political persuasion and that diversity efforts should be focused specifically on him, the white male conservative.

So from what I can tell so far without actually reading it, he said some obvious things that some people have overreacted to, perhaps implied or said some sexist stupid things for which he was deservedly fired if he did indeed write those things, and basically just wrote the memo in order to complain and cry about the fact that people at Google aren't all a bunch of right wing crazies and they actually believe in having a company where more than just white men work.

I'd say the guy is kind of a complaining loser, the reaction though was possibly quite over the top, but he probably did deserve to be fired because he decided to make himself publicly (within the company) make himself a toxic worker, which is not good for the company and his co-workers, so pretty cut and dry on the decision to fire him.



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Slownenberg said:
I haven't read the memo. I have read a few quotes. I should read the memo because the characterizations that I've read about it seems a lot more severe than the actual quotes I've read. But the quotes might not be giving the full gist of the memo while the characterizations do. Don't know yet.

But from what I can tell so far the guy was kinda right about why there aren't as many women in tech, because they aren't drawn to those kind of jobs as much as men are. The characterizations of the memo said he was saying that women actually biologically are worse at the jobs, rather than just not being as drawn to those jobs. If it was the former then the author obviously should be fired, that's not the kind of person anyone should have to work with, but if it is the latter then he was just saying what is pretty obvious.

Though I got the feeling he was also saying that means there should be no diversity effort and its cool and even good if tech workers in America just stay mostly white men. And he seemed to be basically crying because he doesn't work in a field that agrees with his political persuasion and that diversity efforts should be focused specifically on him, the white male conservative.

So from what I can tell so far without actually reading it, he said some obvious things that some people have overreacted to, perhaps implied or said some sexist stupid things for which he was deservedly fired if he did indeed write those things, and basically just wrote the memo in order to complain and cry about the fact that people at Google aren't all a bunch of right wing crazies and they actually believe in having a company where more than just white men work.

I'd say the guy is kind of a complaining loser, the reaction though was possibly quite over the top, but he probably did deserve to be fired because he decided to make himself publicly (within the company) make himself a toxic worker, which is not good for the company and his co-workers, so pretty cut and dry on the decision to fire him.

Damore literally advised the readers to not reduce men and women to their averages and pointed out that their bell curves have a very significant overlap. One of the main takeaways from his memo is to examine everyone on an individual-by-individual basis.



I have kind of given up on Western society at the moment.

I read the memo and there was nothing hateful within it at all. There was greater vitriol and malice in the tweets of random strangers directed towards the employee.

The fact people can just go on twitter to complain and ruin a mans career is deeply concerning. Its also why i steer clear of social media personally.



LurkerJ said:
The full memo

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf

Christ... having read that it's an even worse state that he got fired over it, honestly people with half a brain who could read the memo would see that by firing the guy over his "hate" that they are basically proving him to be right 100%

His memo is very well written and all it seems to ask is honest and open discussion on the matter, down to the first objective of it being

My concrete suggestions are to:
De-moralize diversity.
As soon as we start to
moralize an issue
, we stop thinking about it in terms of
costs and benefits, dismiss anyone that disagrees as immoral, and harshly
punish those we see as villains to protect the “victims.”

 

Then he gets fired for this, it proves that this reaction to him was based on nothing more than a lack of reading the most basic outline of what he asked for, this would be like putting someone to death for them suggesting starting a discussion about if the death penalty is a good idea or not, really just turns him into a martyr

 

 

 



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Never question a corporation's culture when you are just a small insignificant cog in a corporate machine. Insubordination is indeed a genuine reason for dismissal. He was an insubordinate and he dared to challenge the culture of the company and he was rightfully dismissed.



Ka-pi96 said:
Dark_Lord_2008 said:
An employer does not need to state reasons for firing an employee. Business is just business and it is just capitalism. Google is a business and it is a capitalist system. The employees making noise, should remain silent or else they can be fired for being disruptive.

Does the US not have any protections for employees? I know for a fact that firing an employee without reason here in the UK would be illegal and that employee would be able to sue for compensation and would win. And considering that Americans are the ones famous for suing for... well literally anything... I`d be quite surprised if they weren`t able to do the same.

Of course there are. Some states have more protections than others, but even if the most employer friendly state, you can't fire someone because of their religious beliefs, political views, etc. You can fire that person for poor performance or breaking rules, but there's a minimum burden placed on the employer.



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