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Forums - Politics - Trump Announces Ban on Transgender People in US Military

 

You support this?

No. 206 29.68%
 
Yes. 311 44.81%
 
^ What the hell is wrong ... 177 25.50%
 
Total:694
Aeolus451 on 27 July 2017
Tulipanzo said:
Hey, I'm back from the banned!
I've been told to refrain from blanket statements, but I'll try to post less frequently on this thread and to avoid swear words.

Let's be clear, there is absolutely no moral, economic or medical reason to support this decision.
I can say with the utmost confidence, as have many users before me, that if you support this, you are wrong.
I

Now, in my first post I described Trump supporters as, well, particularly stupid.
You can check it, it's on the first page, but I'm trying to avoid swear words now.

So are you trying to call trump supporters stupid again?



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TruckOSaurus on 27 July 2017
Aeolus451 said:
Machiavellian said:

First, you are doing what a lot of people do with no proof.  You throw out there that transgender people have a lot of mental issues.  Can you provide anything that substantiate your claim.  Next if these same people have passed all of the military requirements and have served the military for countless years, received promotions etc, there needs to be clear evidence that their is a problem needing solved by a ban.  You talk about changing military policy as if transgender people started to apply for the miltary yesterday.  These people have been in the military for decades.

Decades? You're talking out of your ass. In 2016, obama told the pentagon to lift the ban on trans being allowed into the military and they had until july 2017 to finish implementing the change. So yes it basically yesterday.

Don't say there's no proof of their mental health issues when they have a very high suicide rate and the root of their issues is gender dysphoria which is a mental disorder which in turn causes other mental issues. 

What about the trans people who are in the military right now, who are fit both physically and mentally for the job? You generalize the trans community as if they were all on the verge of a mental breakdown. The fact is that they are many trans people who are qualified and willing to do the job, why push them out? Because it makes some people uncomfortable?



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TruckOSaurus on 27 July 2017
Aeolus451 said:
SpokenTruth said:

Just admit you find them icky and be done with it.

Or you could listen to dozens of general and members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff that are appalled by this ban and will take absolutely no action on their honorable soldiers regardless of gender specificty just because Trump tweeted it.

Stop trying to imply that I'm a transphobe. I'm completely fine with trans people except for the really extreme types. You're just resorting to that crap because you're running out of logical points to counter me with.  I'm just not a progressive who wants so called progress just for the sake of it. I prefer to be pragmatic about stuff like this. On their mental problems alone, they shouldn't be allowed into the military.

Your statement sums up to "I'm not transphobic but they're all mentally unstable".



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Aeolus451 on 27 July 2017
TruckOSaurus said:
Aeolus451 said:

Decades? You're talking out of your ass. In 2016, obama told the pentagon to lift the ban on trans being allowed into the military and they had until july 2017 to finish implementing the change. So yes it basically yesterday.

Don't say there's no proof of their mental health issues when they have a very high suicide rate and the root of their issues is gender dysphoria which is a mental disorder which in turn causes other mental issues. 

What about the trans people who are in the military right now, who are fit both physically and mentally for the job? You generalize the trans community as if they were all on the verge of a mental breakdown. The fact is that they are many trans people who are qualified and willing to do the job, why push them out? Because it makes some people uncomfortable?

I'm not generalizing but stating a statistically fact. They have alot higher rates of suicide compared to regular people. They also have rates of mental issues stemming from their dysphoria. You're welcome to counter to me on that without feelz.

They were allowed in because they were trans, not because they were qualified per se. A regular person who has their level of mental health issues wouldn't be allowed in. Isn't that how identity politics work? They're likely not many at all in the military given the time frame between obama telling the pentagon to let them to when they have to fully implement the change which around now.

They're simply not fit to be in the miliary where pragmatism, unit cohesiveness and efficiency matter. It has to function as a well oiled machine to serve it's intended function. The US military is not like some of Europe's militaries where they're a token force that's suffering from atrophy not because there's peace but because someone else is defending/furthering their interests for them.



Aeolus451 on 27 July 2017
SpokenTruth said:
Aeolus451 said:

Stop trying to imply that I'm a transphobe. I'm completely fine with trans people except for the really extreme types. You're just resorting to that crap because you're running out of logical points to counter me with.  I'm just not a progressive who wants so called progress just for the sake of it. I prefer to be pragmatic about stuff like this. On their mental problems alone, they shouldn't be allowed into the military.

If they had mental stability problems, they individually would have already been addressed prior to enlistement and either accepted or rejected.   If you mean collectively, you can pause that brush mid stroke.  Besides, how different do you think their mental issues may be versus the already well established mental issues that soldiers deal with?   If mental problems precluded military service, we've had to significantly reduce our military force.

Not if they're told they have to include them. A progressive would push pentagon to change standands to accommodate them if they had to.  Alot of people who have mental issues are denied entry into the military and often kicked out if a mental problem (when it's bad enough) developes while in the military. 



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Aeolus451 on 27 July 2017
TruckOSaurus said:
Aeolus451 said:

Stop trying to imply that I'm a transphobe. I'm completely fine with trans people except for the really extreme types. You're just resorting to that crap because you're running out of logical points to counter me with.  I'm just not a progressive who wants so called progress just for the sake of it. I prefer to be pragmatic about stuff like this. On their mental problems alone, they shouldn't be allowed into the military.

Your statement sums up to "I'm not transphobic but they're all mentally unstable".

I didn't say all, Sherlock. Statistically, they have higher rates of suicides and mental issues. #notall



TallSilhouette on 27 July 2017
Aeolus451 said:
TruckOSaurus said:

Your statement sums up to "I'm not transphobic but they're all mentally unstable".

I didn't say all, Sherlock. Statistically, they have higher rates of suicides and mental issues. #notall

Then why would you categorically ban all trans people from service regardless of merit?



TruckOSaurus on 27 July 2017
Aeolus451 said:
TruckOSaurus said:

What about the trans people who are in the military right now, who are fit both physically and mentally for the job? You generalize the trans community as if they were all on the verge of a mental breakdown. The fact is that they are many trans people who are qualified and willing to do the job, why push them out? Because it makes some people uncomfortable?

I'm not generalizing but stating a statistically fact. They have alot higher rates of suicide compared to regular people. They also have rates of mental issues stemming from their dysphoria. You're welcome to counter to me on that without feelz.

They were allowed in because they were trans, not because they were qualified per se. A regular person who has their level of mental health issues wouldn't be allowed in. Isn't that how identity politics work? They're likely not many at all in the military given the time frame between obama telling the pentagon to let them to when they have to fully implement the change which around now.

They're simply not fit to be in the miliary where pragmatism, unit cohesiveness and efficiency matter. It has to function as a well oiled machine to serve it's intended function. The US military is not like some of Europe's militaries where they're a token force that's suffering from atrophy not because there's peace but because someone else is defending/furthering their interests for them.

Sgt Logan Ireland in the article I linked earlier has started his transition to a man in 2012 so it's not just people who got in since January 2017. These are qualified people who made their place in their platoon, ranked up, gained recognition for their heroism, like any other soldier. Why are they suddenly unfit now?

Also, you say "a regular person who has their level of mental health issues" which again points to you thinking that ALL trans people have mental health issues which is obviously not the case. 



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mizzou_guy on 27 July 2017
Aeolus451 said:
Machiavellian said:

First, you are doing what a lot of people do with no proof.  You throw out there that transgender people have a lot of mental issues.  Can you provide anything that substantiate your claim.  Next if these same people have passed all of the military requirements and have served the military for countless years, received promotions etc, there needs to be clear evidence that their is a problem needing solved by a ban.  You talk about changing military policy as if transgender people started to apply for the miltary yesterday.  These people have been in the military for decades.

Decades? You're talking out of your ass. In 2016, obama told the pentagon to lift the ban on trans being allowed into the military and they had until july 2017 to finish implementing the change. So yes it basically yesterday.

Don't say there's no proof of their mental health issues when they have a very high suicide rate and the root of their issues is gender dysphoria which is a mental disorder which in turn causes other mental issues. 

They've been there for decades, yes.  They just had to keep things to themselves.  However, they have contributed highly to our military.  Please watch this:

Edit:  Sorry, I don't know how to get the video embedding to work:

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/k3vh0c/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-exclusive---transgender-veterans-react-to-trump-s-trans-military-ban



mizzou_guy on 27 July 2017
Aeolus451 said:
TruckOSaurus said:

What about the trans people who are in the military right now, who are fit both physically and mentally for the job? You generalize the trans community as if they were all on the verge of a mental breakdown. The fact is that they are many trans people who are qualified and willing to do the job, why push them out? Because it makes some people uncomfortable?

I'm not generalizing but stating a statistically fact. They have alot higher rates of suicide compared to regular people. They also have rates of mental issues stemming from their dysphoria. You're welcome to counter to me on that without feelz.

They were allowed in because they were trans, not because they were qualified per se. A regular person who has their level of mental health issues wouldn't be allowed in. Isn't that how identity politics work? They're likely not many at all in the military given the time frame between obama telling the pentagon to let them to when they have to fully implement the change which around now.

They're simply not fit to be in the miliary where pragmatism, unit cohesiveness and efficiency matter. It has to function as a well oiled machine to serve it's intended function. The US military is not like some of Europe's militaries where they're a token force that's suffering from atrophy not because there's peace but because someone else is defending/furthering their interests for them.

Can you provide some links or proof of some kind to backup the part I bolded?