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Forums - Nintendo - Myth: Nintendo needs to have big surprises at E3 or they're doomed

irstupid said:

What it will need between now and Jan 1st is either at E3 or a Nintendo Direct to showcase its 2018 line-up of games...

...better to know that you and others are planning on supporting the system in the future.

ESPECIALLY after a failure like the Wii U. No one is blaming Nintendo for dropping support...

....But people remember the long drought of no games. They want to know that the new Switch will have games coming out past 2017.

Wise words. Nintendo does have something to prove to consumers past the first 8 million or so. We were always going to be easy. For the core, it was a question of how soon rather than if. There are a lot of peripheral Nintendo fans that aren't convinced that the Switch will be different than the Wii U yet.



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StuOhQ said:

irstupid said:

What it will need between now and Jan 1st is either at E3 or a Nintendo Direct to showcase its 2018 line-up of games...

...better to know that you and others are planning on supporting the system in the future.

ESPECIALLY after a failure like the Wii U. No one is blaming Nintendo for dropping support...

....But people remember the long drought of no games. They want to know that the new Switch will have games coming out past 2017.

Wise words. Nintendo does have something to prove to consumers past the first 8 million or so. We were always going to be easy. For the core, it was a question of how soon rather than if. There are a lot of peripheral Nintendo fans that aren't convinced that the Switch will be different than the Wii U yet.

Wrong, Switch already proved that is different to Wii U, just look Switch 1st 10 months on market, strong games without droughts, that's totally opposite to Wii U 1st year. And also point that is also very important, Switch is very popular and has great sales, also opposite to Wii U.



Nintendo haven't bothered much with E3 since Iwata's doomed strategy of abandoning talking to the press and releasing endless, monotonous YouTube videos instead. In the years following the Year of Luigi, you never really hear anything in Europe about Nintendo games unless you're reading a specific Nintendo article. PlayStation and Xbox games you hear and read about even in pop culture in comparison. When a random person who has never played an Xbox knows who master chief is, but can't explain how Splatoon works, Nintendo has a problem.

As for people going to saying sales figures are good... At the time the NES Mini was discontinued officially, it had sold more units than the Switch up to that point, even though the potential market for it was much lower. I honestly believe most switch owners are diehard Wii-U fans who upgraded in hope the Switch won't be a (10 years out of date) box of broken promises like the Wii-U was.



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silvergunner said:
Nintendo haven't bothered much with E3 since Iwata's doomed strategy of abandoning talking to the press and releasing endless, monotonous YouTube videos instead. In the years following the Year of Luigi, you never really hear anything in Europe about Nintendo games unless you're reading a specific Nintendo article. PlayStation and Xbox games you hear and read about even in pop culture in comparison. When a random person who has never played an Xbox knows who master chief is, but can't explain how Splatoon works, Nintendo has a problem.

As for people going to saying sales figures are good... At the time the NES Mini was discontinued officially, it had sold more units than the Switch up to that point, even though the potential market for it was much lower. I honestly believe most switch owners are diehard Wii-U fans who upgraded in hope the Switch won't be a (10 years out of date) box of broken promises like the Wii-U was.

Nintendo Dircts are not monotonous, they are quite intresting, they are basicly Nintendos mini E3. Not true, I am pretty sure you read and heard about 3D Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Zelda and Pokemon also. Thats kind of reaching, Halo is alongside Forza most famous and biggest MS IP and it was available even of 1st Xbox, Splatoon is new Nintendo IP and it was launched just one game for now. But sales for Splatoon 1 and pre orders for Splatoon 2 are telling how much is popular Splatoon is, not to mention that Splatoon on Wii U outsold Halo 5 on XB1.

You don't know what are you talking. Nintendo sold around 2-2.5m NES Mini console at end of April, Switch at end of April sold around 3.5m. Offcourse, Switch is successful because die hard Nintendo fans are buying it because they don't want another Wii U situation, it doesn't have anything with fact that Switch has great concept, has great systems sellers games right from launch and great branding and marketing.



NightlyPoe said:
DélioPT said:

 

So, you believe that keeping your costumers in the dark is a good idea?

If your goal is to keep the customers focused on the product that is your current marketing priority, sure.  Nintendo's priority right now is marketing and selling Arms, Splatoon, Pokken Tournament, Mario Odyssey, Xenoblade 2, Fire Emblem Warriors, and that Mario/Rabbids game.

If that's your priority, then keeping the spotlight there just makes sense.

You also believe that the best way to gain new customers is also keeping them in the dark and not hyping their consoles or making people confident that, this time, they can buy a Nintendo console without second-thoughts?

I think that hyping the console with what is there and not what is a promise has its merits as a marketing strategy.  Promising games a year in advance sometimes just makes people wish for what they don't have instead of being hyped for what is in front of them.

You also need to keep in mind that Nintendo is publishing these games themselves.  So they are doubly invested in making sure their current and imminent products are what customers are yearning for.

Not only me, but if not everyone, pretty much everyone operates in a simple way: show what you have for this year and the next.

Just because everyone does something, doesn't mean it's the only way to do it.  Before last year, it was assumed that the only way to run for president was to build a portfolio of donors, endorsements, policy positions, and a team of professionals.  And look how that turned out for everyone who followed that model.

Again, Nintendo's going its own way.  We kinda expect them to do that, so they have some latitude.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Either Nintendo struck gold in marketing strategy (software reveal planning) and nobody realised that or they are just way wrong.

Not necessarily "wrong" just different.  Sony's doing just fine using its current strategy.  Again, there isn't one way to do marketing.  One resaurant might focus on the food and chef, the next might center their marketing on a clown, and a third on a 50s retro look, and yet another might have a series of half-naked women eating burgers.

All of these might be successful, and all might fail.  But none of them are necessarily the "right" way to market.

Marketing products that are going to be released within the next 6 months does not stop you from showing beyond the short term.
The 3 invitationals, treehouse, the showfoor, NDs within the 6 month period... isn't this enough to focus on what's coming? Do you have to sacrifice everything for this purpose? No, you don't.

Switch might be doing great, but the rest of the consumers still need to convinced that this isn't just a one-off year and Nintendo is in a competition for people's dollars and if they decide not to disclose gamers and leave them in the dark, worry not, there are 2 more companies who will gladly fight for them!

Problem is, despite the apparatus, Nintendo and Sony have doing things the same way.
In a post above directed to Miyamotoo, i showed that in their first conference (for PS4) and in the last, their focus has always been focusing one the current year and following year. Same as Nintendo until they had nothing more to show.

It isn't just Sony to hypes their products. I think that pretty much everyone who does conferences and has a booth at E3 does that.
Why? Because it's a competition for gamer's dollars... at the biggest stage of the year.
And what does Nintendo do? "We are not going to fight for gamers".
I'm sorry but i don't see this as a good strategy - that, or 2018 isn't as good as 2017 and they know it.

Actually, it's this attitude of not fighting for gamers and developers that caused them to fail over the years.



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Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said:
   

I checked Sony's last E3 presentation and guess what, they had 9 games that were coming out last year or this year and 5 for... let's say 2018 (not out of the question if one or more releases this year).
I also checked their first E3 presentation and this is the result (X = Indies):
13 - 11111X
14 - 1111111XXXXX
15 - 11X
16 - 1X
Unknown: 1

I don't see Sony announcing things as you say (2-3 years instead of close to release).

 

Give me one example, what exatly Sony or MS game was announced and in relased in less than year in recent times. All currently announced games like new GoW, Days Gone, Gran Turismo Sport, TLoU2...even exclusives like Spiderman or FF7R, are announced at last E3 (FF7R was announced 2 years ago) and they still don't have no one release date.

 

I'm not going to bother anwsering about the rest.

You made a statement: sony's strategy was to reveal 2-3 years ahead.
I gave you 2 examples (E3 2013, E3 2016) where the focus was on games coming the curent year or the following year.

Either you don't believe me or you don't want to believe.
As Reggie said: "Not my problem!" ;)



Miyamotoo said:
friendlyfamine said:

They're doomed if most of the third party games announced by Bethesda/Ubi/Square/Capcom etc are not coming to the Switch. That would negatively establish the Switch as a Nintendo, JRPG and indie machine. I mean, I wouldn't want to buy a $300 console just to play those games :/

Nintendo could live with just Mario Odyssey if third parties come to the system. it's damn important

Yup, same like Wii, DS and 3DS were also doomed without strong 3rd party support.

Such a shit comparison. First of all, those systems succeeded for reasons that the Switch currently doesn't acquire. 

3DS and DS were affordable, had Pokemon...does the Switch have that? It's about double the price of both. Kids primarily had those systems which parents bought them on a special occasion. The Switch doesn't capture that spark at all, at least not yet. Right now this system is more appealing to adults. I wouldn't want that to change either, no? Would you want the Switch to have a similar library to the DS/3DS? It could certainly get more than that. Irrelevant comparison in general-- the DS especially existed in a market where mobile gaming was in its infancy. The DS was the most affordable system that could provide a gaming experience that was also portable. The Switch now? The 3DS just rode off the success of the original DS. Even then, still sold more than half less than what the original DS did lifetime, and any other successors will probably sell less too.

Wii is an even worse comparison. Let me remind you that the Wii was a fad, exponentially intriguing casuals up until about 2011. Subsequently, the phenomenon died out and the Wii left an infamous legacy. The system was encapsulated with shovelware: including carnival, minigame, dance, party, sports games dominating its library. Do you want to Switch to degrade into that? I want to play competent RPG, fighting, action and story-driven games. Now in terms of actual relevance...how did the Wii U perform? It was practically a Wii successor. Nobody who bought a Wii U cared about Wii Fit and Wii Sports on it...the fad even died with the owners. They actually bought it for good games, but there weren't enough of them.

To put it into perspective, the Switch DOES need third party support. It's not carrying the advantages of those systems you listed, and frankly, do you want it to carry the advantages of the Wii? Unless you actually thoroughly relish the Wii's library-- shudder. 

You're one of those, it seems. Can tell by the profile picture and name at that, too.



DélioPT said:
Miyamotoo said:

 

Give me one example, what exatly Sony or MS game was announced and in relased in less than year in recent times. All currently announced games like new GoW, Days Gone, Gran Turismo Sport, TLoU2...even exclusives like Spiderman or FF7R, are announced at last E3 (FF7R was announced 2 years ago) and they still don't have no one release date.

 

I'm not going to bother anwsering about the rest.

You made a statement: sony's strategy was to reveal 2-3 years ahead.
I gave you 2 examples (E3 2013, E3 2016) where the focus was on games coming the curent year or the following year.

Either you don't believe me or you don't want to believe.
As Reggie said: "Not my problem!" ;)

No, you didnt gave me example, you just wrote E3 2013 and E3 2016, again gave me exmaple of game that Sony or MS announced and in relased in less than year in recent times.

You believe whatever you want to believe, while you keep denying facts.

 

friendlyfamine said:
Miyamotoo said:

Yup, same like Wii, DS and 3DS were also doomed without strong 3rd party support.

Such a shit comparison. First of all, those systems succeeded for reasons that the Switch currently doesn't acquire. 

3DS and DS were affordable, had Pokemon...does the Switch have that? It's about double the price of both. Kids primarily had those systems which parents bought them on a special occasion. The Switch doesn't capture that spark at all, at least not yet. Right now this system is more appealing to adults. I wouldn't want that to change either, no? Would you want the Switch to have a similar library to the DS/3DS? It could certainly get more than that. Irrelevant comparison in general-- the DS especially existed in a market where mobile gaming was in its infancy. The DS was the most affordable system that could provide a gaming experience that was also portable. The Switch now? The 3DS just rode off the success of the original DS. Even then, still sold more than half less than what the original DS did lifetime, and any other successors will probably sell less too.

Wii is an even worse comparison. Let me remind you that the Wii was a fad, exponentially intriguing casuals up until about 2011. Subsequently, the phenomenon died out and the Wii left an infamous legacy. The system was encapsulated with shovelware: including carnival, minigame, dance, party, sports games dominating its library. Do you want to Switch to degrade into that? I want to play competent RPG, fighting, action and story-driven games. Now in terms of actual relevance...how did the Wii U perform? It was practically a Wii successor. Nobody who bought a Wii U cared about Wii Fit and Wii Sports on it...the fad even died with the owners. They actually bought it for good games, but there weren't enough of them.

To put it into perspective, the Switch DOES need third party support. It's not carrying the advantages of those systems you listed, and frankly, do you want it to carry the advantages of the Wii? Unless you actually thoroughly relish the Wii's library-- shudder. 

You're one of those, it seems. Can tell by the profile picture and name at that, too.

We talked about 3rd party, and comparison is good because those systems also didn't had strong 3rd party support, they succeed regardless they didn't had strong 3rd party support.

Of Course that Switch does not need strong 3rd party support, same like DS, 3DS and Wii didn't had, and Switch sales and popularity proves that.



Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said:

I'm not going to bother anwsering about the rest.

You made a statement: sony's strategy was to reveal 2-3 years ahead.
I gave you 2 examples (E3 2013, E3 2016) where the focus was on games coming the curent year or the following year.

Either you don't believe me or you don't want to believe.
As Reggie said: "Not my problem!" ;)

No, you didnt gave me example, you just wrote E3 2013 and E3 2016, again gave me exmaple of game that Sony or MS announced and in relased in less than year in recent times.

You believe whatever you want to believe, while you keep denying facts.

I didn't give examples? I suppose you missed this, then:

"I checked Sony's last E3 presentation and guess what, they had 9 games that were coming out last year or this year and 5 for... let's say 2018 (not out of the question if one or more releases this year).
I also checked their first E3 presentation and this is the result (X = Indies):
13 - 11111X
14 - 1111111XXXXX
15 - 11X
16 - 1X
Unknown: 1"

Do the math and see if your view of how Sony handles E3 is true or not.



DélioPT said:
Miyamotoo said:

No, you didnt gave me example, you just wrote E3 2013 and E3 2016, again gave me exmaple of game that Sony or MS announced and in relased in less than year in recent times.

You believe whatever you want to believe, while you keep denying facts.

I didn't give examples? I suppose you missed this, then:

"I checked Sony's last E3 presentation and guess what, they had 9 games that were coming out last year or this year and 5 for... let's say 2018 (not out of the question if one or more releases this year).
I also checked their first E3 presentation and this is the result (X = Indies):
13 - 11111X
14 - 1111111XXXXX
15 - 11X
16 - 1X
Unknown: 1"

Do the math and see if your view of how Sony handles E3 is true or not.

You have some problem with reading!? No you didn't give me an examples, what you wrote are not examples of specific games. Again, gave me example of game that Sony or MS announced and released in less than year, in recent times.

Like wrote, all currently announced games like new GoW, Days Gone, Gran Turismo Sport, TLoU2...even exclusives like Spiderman or FF7R, are announced at last E3 (FF7R was announced 2 years ago) and they still don't have no one release date.