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Forums - Sales Discussion - Nintendo has a realistic shot at returning to #1 this fiscal year - RESULT: Nintendo back on top (21.45m), Sony second (19m+)

 

Which company will sell the most consoles in the fiscal year ending March 2018?

Sony (by more than 3m) 260 27.84%
 
Sony (between 2-3m more) 52 5.57%
 
Sony (between 1-2m more) 73 7.82%
 
Virtually tied (within 1m of each other) 133 14.24%
 
Nintendo (between 1-2m more) 150 16.06%
 
Nintendo (between 2-3m more) 59 6.32%
 
Nintendo (by more than 3m) 104 11.13%
 
Microsoft (seriously) 15 1.61%
 
Microsoft (for the lulz) 30 3.21%
 
Scoreboard 58 6.21%
 
Total:934
Biggerboat1 on 02 May 2018
Lauster said:
Biggerboat1 said:

So by your logic, the Wii balance board would be recognised as a platform?

By the logic of my previous message, no, because it's not listed on http://www.vgchartz.com/platforms :P

Rather than going by an arbitrary definition of platform that was likely devised by this site to create a more concise filing / labeling system why don't we actually look at the underlying logic...

If the definition of a platform includes accessories that demand exclusive games / versions of games then there are going to be all sorts of ridiculous entries...

Is each labo design a platform, because to play their accompanying mini-game as intended you need to have the kit?



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Lauster on 02 May 2018
Biggerboat1 said:
Lauster said:

By the logic of my previous message, no, because it's not listed on http://www.vgchartz.com/platforms :P

Rather than going by an arbitrary definition of platform that was likely devised by this site to create a more concise filing / labeling system why don't we actually look at the underlying logic...

If the definition of a platform includes accessories that demand exclusive games / versions of games then there are going to be all sorts of ridiculous entries...

Is each labo design a platform, because to play their accompanying mini-game as intended you need to have the kit?

Ok, I'll try to express my point of view.

By my developer logic, I would say that Wii Balance Board and Labo simply change the interraction in your game, not the game itself in the way you create it, technically. You always develop it with the same technical requirements of any game on the same platform. You only change / redefine the shape.

For Sega CD or PSVR, you have different needs from the "main" platform they depend on, you have different requirements. Not only the interraction, but the display of the game is different, you have to think not only the shape but also the heart.

Sorry if it's not very clear ^^"



zorg1000 on 02 May 2018
Lauster said:
zorg1000 said:

PSVR is an accessory, you cant just buy a PSVR and start playing.

It would be like including sales of extra Switch docks.

Because you can play different games than the Switch with just the dock ? :P

PSVR is useless without a PS4 just like a dock is useless without a Switch.

Vgchartz having Sega CD on a list with no sales data means nothing. They dont have Famicom Disk System, 32x, N64DD included which are the same concept as Sega CD.

Its just a random inconsistency on this sites part.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Biggerboat1 on 02 May 2018
Lauster said:
Biggerboat1 said:

Rather than going by an arbitrary definition of platform that was likely devised by this site to create a more concise filing / labeling system why don't we actually look at the underlying logic...

If the definition of a platform includes accessories that demand exclusive games / versions of games then there are going to be all sorts of ridiculous entries...

Is each labo design a platform, because to play their accompanying mini-game as intended you need to have the kit?

Ok, I'll try to express my point of view.

By my developer logic, I would say that Wii Balance Board and Labo simply change the interraction in your game, not the game itself in the way you create it, technically. You always develop it with the same technical requirements of any game on the same platform. You only change / redefine the shape.

For Sega CD or PSVR, you have different needs from the "main" platform they depend on, you have different requirements. Not only the interraction, but the display of the game is different, you have to think not only the shape but also the heart.

Sorry if it's not very clear ^^"

The RAM expansion pack for the N64 gave the developer different technical requirements to hit, but again I don't think anyone would consider that a different platform...

So on the one hand, you have accessories which change the way you interact - Wii Balance Board, Labo, the bongo drums, Kinnect and indeed the PSVR.

On the other you have ones that change or improve on the capabilities of the hardware - which would include the ram pack, Sega CD, N64DD etc.

In either scenario, I personally think it'd be silly to class them as their own platform, and I feel that trying to justify the decision to do so is just muddying the waters and, intentionally or otherwise, derailing the thread...



Malt4zar on 02 May 2018
CrazyGamer2017 said:
Malt4zar said:

Sorry to barge into this conversation like this but, isn't it also unfair to discount the still decent sales of the 3DS last fiscal year just because its most direct competidor (the Vita) sells/sold poorly? 


The old portable still means a lot to Nintendo's future, so why ignore it in this kind of comparisons?

No need to be sorry, your question is totally fair so here is my reply:

I would never ask of 3DS sales to be discounted or ignored. If the thread had been 3DS vs Vita, 3DS totally crushing Vita in sales, then I would have been totally ok with that as a comparison of 3DS vs Vita is totally fair because they are direct competitors that are fighting for the exact same market: Portables.

It's the fact the thread is pitching Switch + 3DS vs PS4 sales which seems wrong. As Louie said it himself, Vita figures are unknown. So comparing to unknown sales of a system seems kind of an unfair way to put forth figures. And this is just my opinion, you are of course free to disagree

Thank you for the response.

Let me use a little bit of analogy to present my case a little bit better.

The user RolStoppable is the referee in a wrestilling match including both Sony and Nintendo. Sony is clearly the best during a solo hand to hand combat but Nintendo has the upper hand when combos are throw into the misture.

If this was a boxe match. Sony would win without much problems. The same with Nintendo in jiu-jitsu (or something like that, i don't watch this kind of sport! :P)

Would it be fair to exclude certain combos in the wrestiling match just because one of the competidors doesn't know how or is incapable to perform them?



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Malt4zar on 02 May 2018

 

Malt4zar said:

Thank you for the response.

Let me use a little bit of analogy to present my case a little bit better.

The user RolStoppable is the referee in a wrestilling match including both Sony and Nintendo. Sony is clearly the best during a solo hand to hand combat but Nintendo has the upper hand when combos are throw into the misture.

If this was a boxe match. Sony would win without much problems. The same with Nintendo in jiu-jitsu (or something like that, i don't watch this kind of sport! :P)

Would it be fair to exclude certain combos in the wrestiling match just because one of the competidors doesn't know how or is incapable to perform them?

While your point would have merit if this thread were as CrazyGamer2017 said, this thread isn't like that to begin with. During the compared fiscal year, Nintendo had two consoles and Sony had two consoles. CrazyGamer is the first person in this thread's year-long existence who does not grasp that Vita shipments were always supposed to be estimated and added to the final tally.

Sony was clearly facing a disadvantage during last fiscal year with the vita completely dead and the 3ds still going "strong". Estimated shipments or not, the comparison was fair in my book because it wouldn't change anything in the long run. Nintendo is back in the top thanks to the 3DS. Too bad Sony barely tried with the vita back in the day, or else we could have had a different outcome in the end today. 

Last edited by Malt4zar - on 02 May 2018

Lauster on 04 May 2018
Biggerboat1 said:
Lauster said:

Ok, I'll try to express my point of view.

By my developer logic, I would say that Wii Balance Board and Labo simply change the interraction in your game, not the game itself in the way you create it, technically. You always develop it with the same technical requirements of any game on the same platform. You only change / redefine the shape.

For Sega CD or PSVR, you have different needs from the "main" platform they depend on, you have different requirements. Not only the interraction, but the display of the game is different, you have to think not only the shape but also the heart.

Sorry if it's not very clear ^^"

The RAM expansion pack for the N64 gave the developer different technical requirements to hit, but again I don't think anyone would consider that a different platform...

So on the one hand, you have accessories which change the way you interact - Wii Balance Board, Labo, the bongo drums, Kinnect and indeed the PSVR.

On the other you have ones that change or improve on the capabilities of the hardware - which would include the ram pack, Sega CD, N64DD etc.

In either scenario, I personally think it'd be silly to class them as their own platform, and I feel that trying to justify the decision to do so is just muddying the waters and, intentionally or otherwise, derailing the thread...

OK, my explanation wasn't perfect.

The RAM expansion pack for N64 didn't change the way of developping the game. It was truly accessory, every games could be played without it (except DK64 because they didn't find another way to resolve a bug, that's why the RAM expansion was free with this game). 

VR is a new medium (even more than that), not just an accessory. It has its own games, its own accessories and a price in the same order of magnitude as other platforms.

We are talking about vg hardware sales in a context of fiscal year results. So I think I am perfectly in the subject by mentioning a device currently produced in the factory, delivered worldwide, related to video games and with its own lineup of a hundred titles from different developpers. That's not because we have a different vision that you can imply that I derail the thread. My question of "why no PSVR figures" is perfectly legitimate in this context.

 

RolStoppable said: 
Lauster said:

Well, it's like the Sega CD that needs a Sega Genesis but is considered like a different platform in VGC (http://www.vgchartz.com/platforms/).

Someone (Rol ? I don't remember) said in this thread that NES and SNES mini are not included because it's not current gen games. That's why I said gaming hardware for this gen.

We can add them if you want, but it proves that this result is just a part of reality according to the limits we want to consider.

I only said that SNES Mini doesn't count, but never gave a reason. The reason I would give is that the SNES Mini doesn't work like a conventional console by today's definition: It's not possible to buy additional games for the SNES Mini.

Generations are irrelevant when the methodology concerns fiscal years. It's a simple and straight-forward methodology because it eliminates all longwinded debates about which systems belong to which generation.

Ok, and I can agree. It all depends on the limit you want to put.

I misused the term "generation", I said too in the past that this notion is no longer relevant. My idea was to separate the hardware that uses modern games from the other that runs old Roms.



Biggerboat1 on 09 May 2018
Lauster said:
Biggerboat1 said:

The RAM expansion pack for the N64 gave the developer different technical requirements to hit, but again I don't think anyone would consider that a different platform...

So on the one hand, you have accessories which change the way you interact - Wii Balance Board, Labo, the bongo drums, Kinnect and indeed the PSVR.

On the other you have ones that change or improve on the capabilities of the hardware - which would include the ram pack, Sega CD, N64DD etc.

In either scenario, I personally think it'd be silly to class them as their own platform, and I feel that trying to justify the decision to do so is just muddying the waters and, intentionally or otherwise, derailing the thread...

OK, my explanation wasn't perfect.

The RAM expansion pack for N64 didn't change the way of developping the game. It was truly accessory, every games could be played without it (except DK64 because they didn't find another way to resolve a bug, that's why the RAM expansion was free with this game). 

VR is a new medium (even more than that), not just an accessory. It has its own games, its own accessories and a price in the same order of magnitude as other platforms.

We are talking about vg hardware sales in a context of fiscal year results. So I think I am perfectly in the subject by mentioning a device currently produced in the factory, delivered worldwide, related to video games and with its own lineup of a hundred titles from different developpers. That's not because we have a different vision that you can imply that I derail the thread. My question of "why no PSVR figures" is perfectly legitimate in this context.

The RAM expansion pack changed the way that the game were developed in terms of improving the resources available to the developer. In addition it Donkey Kong 64, it was also required by Majora's Mask & Perfect Dark, so a small but overall great list of exclusive games!

I guess we're just not going to agree on this. In my opinion to count as a platform it needs to function on it's own. All of the heavy lifting on PSVR is done by the PS4, so to say that PSVR can stand on it's own as platform smacks of counting the PS4 twice...

The specs that a dev has to work to for the PSVR is essentially the same as the base PS4/Pro, so all that's weighing in it's favour of being a separate platform is exclusive games, which again you could say for lots of accessories that I've already mentioned.

Likewise, if Nintendo release a VR mount for the switch, a la the samsung oculus headsets, I wouldn't count it as a platform either.

If you want to discuss Nintendo vs Sony gaming in the overall fiscal year, which can include accessories and games, then feel free to create a thread - but that's not what's being discussed here.

 

P.S. sorry for late response