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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Emulation - The Legalities, Ethics, Benefits and Drawbacks

What are your views on emulation?
It would be best to support these companies by purchasing their games, but emulation is convenient for super hard to find and super expensive to get games. I'm not going to spend $100+ for Radiant Dawn or anything so I haven't been able to play it :/

What benefits does emulation provide?
Like I mentioned above, a way to play games that are extremely hard or expensive to find

Does it impact game sales?
Of course, some to a larger degree than others

How do game creators feel about this?
Can't speak for the game creators, but probably negatively

What are the legalities and ethics around emulation?
It's in the legal grey area and is generally looked down upon

What percentage of those that use emulators are engaged in privacy?
N/A

Are there sources of data to support this?
N/A



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Green098 said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, the vast majority of games that I get are used/second-hand, so most of the time I don't contribute to the developers. Am I wrong for assuming that I have the same hobby as those who buy new copies to give money back to the developers?

But the copy of the game you bought of someone else still had money contributed to the developer by the original's owner who purchased it.

Piracy is just steal the title yourself for free.

And one other obvious difference one is illegal one is not.

But the point you make (playing the game with the money going to someone else and not the developers) is also one for why I'm against the idea of renting games.

What? You're against the idea of renting games too? So, does that also mean you're against the sale of second-hand games?



What are your views on emulation?
It is, by itself, a semi-legal practice. It does, however, open the door for significant piracy. Emulation on PC or CFWs are both equally extralegal in this sense.

What benefits does emulation provide?
Only two real benefits here; you can consolidate all of your favorite games on one platform, and you can forgo buying the console. That second one send to be the major reason many are into emulation.

Does it impact game sales?
Yes, it does, regardless of the "I wouldn't buy it anyway" arguments. If you wouldn't buy it, how else would you experience it? Watching someone's YouTube? That's profit. Borrowing a friend's game? He still had to buy it. Going to a friend's house to play it? Again, that person had to buy it. Renting it? That's revenue generated for the rental company, who pays for the rights to rent it.

But downloading an emulating it? You're a pirate, congratulations.

How do game creators feel about this?
Well, Sony took some significant legal action when the PS3 was jailbroken. And I seem to remember a pretty big coalition teaming up with Nintendo to attack the R4 company. So I'm pretty sure they're mostly not down for it.

What are the legalities and ethics around emulation?
Emulation is legal when you own the game you're playing. Any other scenerio is not.

What percentage of those that use emulators are engaged in privacy?
I'm not going to throw out a number, because I don't know. But considering how many of my friends emulate without owning the game they're playing? Most.

Are there sources of data to support this?
I feel like this question is the gunshot from the previously loaded question. Nice try, though ;)



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VGPolyglot said:
Green098 said:

But the copy of the game you bought of someone else still had money contributed to the developer by the original's owner who purchased it.

Piracy is just steal the title yourself for free.

And one other obvious difference one is illegal one is not.

But the point you make (playing the game with the money going to someone else and not the developers) is also one for why I'm against the idea of renting games.

What? You're against the idea of renting games too? So, does that also mean you're against the sale of second-hand games?

I never gave second hand games much thought, but renting games makes a far bigger impact both ways (the renter and the creator). Purchase the game once then make thousands off it by lending it to people for money which none goes to the actual creator of the game. That's always felt wrong to me, it's basically just earning money off someone elses hard work. And there is obviously a case for this, it's why it is illegal to rent video games in Japan.



Green098 said:
VGPolyglot said:

What? You're against the idea of renting games too? So, does that also mean you're against the sale of second-hand games?

I never gave second hand games much thought, but renting games makes a far bigger impact both ways (the renter and the creator). Purchase the game once then make thousands off it by lending it to people for money which none goes to the actual creator of the game. That's always felt wrong to me, it's basically just earning money off someone elses hard work. And there is obviously a case for this, it's why it is illegal to rent video games in Japan.

So, you think if a person makes a house and someone else buys it, that they shouldn't be able to rent the house out because the person that originally made the house doesn't profit off of it?



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Azuren said:

Does it impact game sales?
Yes, it does, regardless of the "I wouldn't buy it anyway" arguments. If you wouldn't buy it, how else would you experience it? Watching someone's YouTube? That's profit. Borrowing a friend's game? He still had to buy it. Going to a friend's house to play it? Again, that person had to buy it. Renting it? That's revenue generated for the rental company, who pays for the rights to rent it.

That's assuming that they'd experience the game in the first place. A lot of people just wouldn't experience the game and move on.



VGPolyglot said:
Azuren said:

Does it impact game sales?
Yes, it does, regardless of the "I wouldn't buy it anyway" arguments. If you wouldn't buy it, how else would you experience it? Watching someone's YouTube? That's profit. Borrowing a friend's game? He still had to buy it. Going to a friend's house to play it? Again, that person had to buy it. Renting it? That's revenue generated for the rental company, who pays for the rights to rent it.

That's assuming that they'd experience the game in the first place. A lot of people just wouldn't experience the game and move on.

Pretty sure they would at least watch a YouTube video.



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VGPolyglot said:
Green098 said:

I never gave second hand games much thought, but renting games makes a far bigger impact both ways (the renter and the creator). Purchase the game once then make thousands off it by lending it to people for money which none goes to the actual creator of the game. That's always felt wrong to me, it's basically just earning money off someone elses hard work. And there is obviously a case for this, it's why it is illegal to rent video games in Japan.

So, you think if a person makes a house and someone else buys it, that they shouldn't be able to rent the house out because the person that originally made the house doesn't profit off of it?

Are these game developer's selling their games for hundreds of thousands a copy? And one game can be rented to hundreds in a lifetime to people who will never go and buy the actual the game itself and contributing the developer, people who rent a house are most likely going to end up buying one for themselves at some point.

If the game developer leased some sort of special rentable copy of the game to retailers for a much higher price or in which they get a cut of the earnings then that would create a much smaller negative impact on the developer and they themselves would willingly allow for for their game to be rented.

Anyways the money the game developers spent developing a game is often millions, and then sold for $60. The money the builder put's into to building the house is a lot less than the amount it is sold for, unlike the game developers who risk and invest millions in the creation of game.

The renter buys game for $60 and makes that money back and huge profits quickly.

The house renter invests hundreds of thousands to slowly earn money over time.



Safiir said:
I've already said my opinion on the matter and how much I disagree with SvennoJ (I'm singling you out because you seem to be making the most coherent arguments against emulation :) ) but would like to point out that emulation is not limited only to game consoles. For example VMware is used in a lot of IT companies in order to create multiple virtual machines on a single server. Completely official and legal. Could it be used in order to run pirate software? Absolutely! Does it have any safeguards in order to assure pirated software cannot be used? Not a single one! Why isn't there outrage against it?

VMWare is not promoted here.
VMWare is not shown to be running brand new games.
VMWare is not available for download bundled with pirated games.

Emulators are easier to make without using a virtual machine. No need to go through an extra hoop which would only slow things down. I can't really find anything about VMWare used for piracy, only VMWare getting pirated itself. Emulators however...

It's completely different. There is no outrage against DOSBox either, mini nes, virtual console, BC etc. Promoting or making a program available that actively encourages people to circumvent security measures and or download pirated versions of brand new software is where the line gets crossed.



Azuren said:
VGPolyglot said:

That's assuming that they'd experience the game in the first place. A lot of people just wouldn't experience the game and move on.

Pretty sure they would at least watch a YouTube video.

A lot of the games I play on the Wii emulators I never even would have heard of. Plus, even if I did watch the videos on YT, I have adblock, so even if they did have ads on them I wouldn't see them.