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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Emulation - The Legalities, Ethics, Benefits and Drawbacks

If I have to buy Super Mario Bros. on the Switch for the billionth time, I would be fine with emulation/piracy. I'm all for emulating old games ("old" defined by can't be purchased/found new or officially in the market physically, and even sometimes digitally), with new games I wouldn't dare. I don't believe it affects developers as much as others say though; they already have plans to counter piracy (no, not DRM. Season passes and DLC).



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I think emulation is good for past consoles. Not previous gen but really old stuff.
There are a few C64 games i really like but I do not have a working C64, tape unit, CRT etc and emulation is pretty much the only way to play those games.
As I see it, the biggest problem is usually dumping those old games from your tapes/cartridges/floppys etc. In many cases the media can no longer be read/dumped.

A newer example for me personally is the first xenogear. I cannot dump it from CD so I can play it on dolphin (it is not a huge problem since I have a Wii-U but if I could choose I would play it emulated in higher resolution)

As for most questions from OP I simply do not have data but I do not think emulation affect sales in a dramatic fashion.



I think this forum is disproportionately hostile to emulation compared to the average gamer since it has a higher proportion of Nintendo fans, and Nintendo consoles are often easier to emulate, or there is more interest on it.

Either way, it isn't as nearly as big of an issue as some think. It seems very likely that some 95% of gamers will just go on to play the next Call of Duty or Overwatch, or find something new on their App Store to download, instead of buying or playing older console games, or going through the hassle of emulating them.

I don't remember who did it on the media, but someone called the likes of backwards compatibility or Virtual Console, for instance, the best feature everybody wants, but no one uses.

Besides the sort of people who spend their time on gaming forums, that is.




 

 

 

 

 

Miguel_Zorro said:

What benefits does emulation provide?

Does it impact game sales?

How do game creators feel about this?

What are the legalities and ethics around emulation?

What percentage of those that use emulators are engaged in privacy?

Are there sources of data to support this?

Let's discuss this!  Keep it civil, please.

 

What are your views on emulation?

Emulators are fine legally. Distribution of them should come with strings attached to prevent piracy, they don't do that. You have a moral responsibility when distributing software (or anything else) that it can't easily be abused.

What benefits does emulation provide?

Benefits of emulation are better understanding of the software and systems themselves which can help keep old games in the public mindshare and keep the knowledge of older systems alive. They can show publishers that there is still interest in certain games.

Does it impact game sales?

Emulators impact game sales as it diminishes the value of games. It directly affects the value of second hand games, yet also the amount of effort that can be spend on remasters and official emulation.
The newer the game emulators can emulate the more chance it has to impact new game sales as well. Piracy is real and closely tied to emulators. Super Mario Galaxy 2 was illegally downloaded 1.29 million times in 2011 (the year after its release) Most of that was probably running on soft modded consoles instead of Dolphin. Yet with emulators catching up to console hardware, soft modding will no longer be neccesary when you can play the game on an emulator withing half a year of release.

How do game creators feel about this?

Some creators will be pleased that their old software is not forgotten. Most will raise their eyebrows when seeing their hard work distributed for free. Emulators are very closely intertwined with piracy. As a software creator myself it was very frustrating to have to work with DRM during development, after we found our sofware available online for free. Emulators are build to circumvent DRM as most of them run of copies without any check if the original is present. It's hard to distinguish emulators from software that cracks the game.

What are the legalities and ethics around emulation?

- Emulators themselves are legal.
- Downloading roms, isos, console bios, etc is illegal.
- Making an archieval backup of owned software is legal in most countries.
- Making a copy (while retaining the original) for use is only legal is some countries.
- Emulating games for consoles and games that no longer exist is morally acceptable.
- Abandonware is still piracy, however so far a simple take down request by publishers has been honered by Abandonia when pulishers want to revive the ip themselves or have a prolem with their game being distributed for free.
- Emulating games that are still for sale should be strongly discouraged unless anti piracy measures are in place.
- Making money of distributing emulators by promoting brand new games running on it is ethically reprehensible. Cemu makes 43k a month now from Zelda.

What percentage of those that use emulators are engaged in piracy?

That's impossible to tell which is directly the fault of how emulators work. Yet we all know that humans aren't capable of living by the honor system. Likely the percentage is very high as, unless you have the tools to copy the software yourself (and circumvent security measures which is illegal in most countries), downloading it is your only option, which is piracy.

Are there sources of data to support this?

Here's the result of 1 simple Google search, 1 link.
http://1337x.to/torrent/2107759/The-Legend-of-Zelda-Breath-of-the-Wild-CEMU-1-7-3-D/
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Included in this package: Breath of the Wild updated to 1.33 and CEMU 1.7.3d (patreon build)
EDIT: For A CRACKED version of CEMU please refer to my other torrent: CEMU 1.7.3d Cracked (MUDLORD)
Downloaded 20083 times so far. With a link to hide you IP adress since apparently it's tracked, that's how legal it is! Those are all illegal downloads.
Mods feel free to delete that link, as I hope there are some rules against linking to pirated software. Which raises the question why is promoting emulators that run off pirated software ok?

Some say piracy is no longer an issue on PC since cheap games are abundant now. I don't belive that.
https://torrentfreak.com/media-companies-track-pirated-downloads-for-marketing-purposes-150218/
I doubt piracy was eliminated in the last 2 years. Why the fuss over Denuvo otherwise...

Emulators are unfortunately very close to piracy until they clean up their act and verify that you actually own the software. Either by working with the console manufacturors or software publishers. Until then they simply enable illegal activity.
However as long as it remains small in scale (that is not promoted everywhere as the 'best way' to play new games) it won't have much of an impact. Meanwhile the industry has been taking their own measures to move away from piracy by focussing more on games as a service, always online requirements and digital licenses instead of ownership of software. Sony has their eyes on streaming, MS on games as a service and already tried the online check-in strategy, more and more PC games require you to be online for single player games, and Nintendo tries to make it more desirable to having all their software run on a hybrid console. Emulators promoting brand new games will only hasten this process, and make it less desirable to launch new games on old hardware when they gain in popularity.



SvennoJ said:

 

Good stuff

I share most of the views shared here, very well-written post.

Overall, I can't say I'm completely behind banning piracy discussion from emulation threads, as I'm not convinced the two are as independent as some feel. It seems like there will always be that elephant in the room, akin to banning discussion on gun control in gun ownership threads (I know it's an extreme example, don't rip my throat out). That being said, if the community feels confident they can maintain discussion on legal use of emulation, I don't mind giving this suggestion a chance at least.

Of course, when it comes to piracy or illegal forms of emulation, I would be completely behind more severe moderation, depending on the offense, as I find it absolutely shameful that scum that don't contribute to the developers that sweated over these games are pretending to have the same hobby as those of us who do.



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Super_Boom said:

Of course, when it comes to piracy or illegal forms of emulation, I would be completely behind more severe moderation, depending on the offense, as I find it absolutely shameful that scum that don't contribute to the developers that sweated over these games are pretending to have the same hobby as those of us who do.

Well, the vast majority of games that I get are used/second-hand, so most of the time I don't contribute to the developers. Am I wrong for assuming that I have the same hobby as those who buy new copies to give money back to the developers?



By the time a console can be emulated, it's so old that the impact on the industry is almost nil. Emulation is a great technical achievement and incredibly handy to those who don't want multiple retro consoles hooked up or want to play games in a higher resolution.

It's pretty sad that people are taking issue with it just to defend their preferred company.



VGPolyglot said:

Well, the vast majority of games that I get are used/second-hand, so most of the time I don't contribute to the developers. Am I wrong for assuming that I have the same hobby as those who buy new copies to give money back to the developers?

This is a valid point, actually. I think some of the arguments apply, but in the end, you are contributing something, even if not to the original author directly.

Most of my frustration stems from those who refuse to pay anything into the industry while still partaking in it, or worse, taking pride in their ability to play games that way when they easily have the means to do otherwise. I suppose you can say it's a very specific frustration, but I've been involved in enough gaming communities to know it's not negligible either.



NNID: Zephyr25 / PSN: Zephyr--25 / Switch: SW-4450-3680-7334

I've already said my opinion on the matter and how much I disagree with SvennoJ (I'm singling you out because you seem to be making the most coherent arguments against emulation :) ) but would like to point out that emulation is not limited only to game consoles. For example VMware is used in a lot of IT companies in order to create multiple virtual machines on a single server. Completely official and legal. Could it be used in order to run pirate software? Absolutely! Does it have any safeguards in order to assure pirated software cannot be used? Not a single one! Why isn't there outrage against it?



VGPolyglot said:
Super_Boom said:

Of course, when it comes to piracy or illegal forms of emulation, I would be completely behind more severe moderation, depending on the offense, as I find it absolutely shameful that scum that don't contribute to the developers that sweated over these games are pretending to have the same hobby as those of us who do.

Well, the vast majority of games that I get are used/second-hand, so most of the time I don't contribute to the developers. Am I wrong for assuming that I have the same hobby as those who buy new copies to give money back to the developers?

But the copy of the game you bought of someone else still had money contributed to the developer by the original's owner who purchased it.

Piracy is just steal the title yourself for free.

And one other obvious difference one is illegal one is not.

But the point you make (playing the game with the money going to someone else and not the developers) is also one for why I'm against the idea of renting games.