By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - Man violently removed from United Airlines plane. ~Update~ United may have broken the law.

Imaginedvl on 10 April 2017
hollabackenny said:
Imaginedvl said:

Don't think you are following here. United being wrong or not is not why the dude got hurt... Not at all and nobody is even arguing with that.

He got hurt because the police unnecessarily used force to remove the man from the plane when they had no business being on there to remove him in the first place. As I said, whoever they were going to randomly deny entry on the plane should have been done before they scanned his ticket and sat in his assigned seat.  

No it did not get hurt because of the policy; nothing in the policy forced him ignore the cop's/airliner's request multiple time...
He got hurt because of his stupidity and his choice not to comply with authorities... Plain and simple.



Around the Network
Soundwave on 10 April 2017
Imaginedvl said:
hollabackenny said:

He got hurt because the police unnecessarily used force to remove the man from the plane when they had no business being on there to remove him in the first place. As I said, whoever they were going to randomly deny entry on the plane should have been done before they scanned his ticket and sat in his assigned seat.  

No it did not get hurt because of the policy; nothing in the policy forced him ignore the cop's/airliner's request multiple time...
He got hurt because of his stupidity and his choice not to comply with authorities... Plain and simple.

This is legally incorrect IMO. 

A cop doesn't have blanket authority to order people around however he wants. That is a video game, not real life. 

If a police officer doesn't understand the legality of something he/she is trying to enforce, they are in the wrong, not you. For example, if you are pulled over in the US and they ask to search your vehicle without a warrant or have probable cause. If they don't however, you are within your rights as a citizen to not comply. 

And if they smash your face in for not complying, you have every right as a citizen to sue them up the ass with a 8 foot lawsuit. 



SvennoJ on 10 April 2017
Imaginedvl said:
SvennoJ said:

Do we live in a society where time > decency. There was no danger here, no reason to resort to pulling and dragging. It could have taken an hour to talk the man into leaving the plane, so what. Figure something out. It's nothing like pulling a gun on a cop. And when you lay hands on someone, you are responsible for the outcome, plain and simple.

The guy did not want to get out... What do you mean by time? I'm sorry but no, other people do not have to wait (what? hours? Days? Take another plane because of this parasite?) just because he decided to do not comply and give a finger to that same "society" with rules and authorities? And all the people on tthe plane shluld wait because of him, where is the decency towards all other passengers?

Decency also includes other people and the impact of his behavior... 

Good you talk about the society because it actually shows that now, some people really feel like you should respect them so much, not touch them, let them not comply with authorities and do whatever they want until "they" decide to move or comply... I'm sorry but this all wrong imo. Esp. after asking him multiple time with a lot of decency before

That's the reality of being a parent nowadays, yet we still manage without hurting our kids. But sure, society sucks today because of that right. A bit of violence is good to knock some sense into people... Violence is a last resort, a I have given up strategy, let emotions dictate the actions. Besides it's not asking if you don't have to option to decline. Seems to me they were just in a rush to get going and didn't exhaust all other options before using force.



nemo37 on 10 April 2017

This is all on United Airlines. I applaud the guy for standing his ground under these circumstances. United could have avoided this situation by:

1. Prioritizing paying customers over its employees (it certainly would not have been fair to the employee, but at least they are in a business where delays are frequent and expected)

2. Better yet, stop overbooking and keep a few seats open in case of emergencies.

I imagine the people defending United in this thread would feel differently if they had an important place to get to, but are forced to get off of their means of transportation because of overbooking or because the transportation company wants to give priority to another group of people.



kayoss on 11 April 2017
Imaginedvl said:
Hiku said:

Incorrect. If they had chainsawed him out of the seat, they'd be in jail for excessive force, manslaughter, etc.

the line stops when the person is 1) not comploying with authorities (wrongly or not) and then resisting, simple as that. There are only one way to remove him from the plane; pull him and drag him...

Two ways. Bash his skull in on an armrest.

And again they did not bash his skull, HE did but actively resisting and then hurting himself...

And again, they did as well. Cops can get convicted with excessive force, or gross negligence, even if that situation happened because a suspect resisted and they had a right to detain them. Going back to the line I'm talking about that you pretend doesn't exist. If this man was a danger to others, and there was a sense of urgency, then it's a different story. But this was just a guy who wouldn't get off his seat.
The way they handled this man was incompetent to say the least.

You ignored it but my analogy (somewhat extrem) with a dude pulling a gun on a cop and then being shot is the same...

Because it was a horribly bad analogy.

If the man had attempted to, or threatened to, put the cops in a situation where their heads would get bashed in on an armrest, then and only then would your analogy be valid about them "shooting because they were scared of getting shot". But that's not the case here. He didn't threaten to do to them what was done to him. They weren't "afraid of getting their heads bashed in on an armrest, so they did it to him first."

Horrible analogy.

The analogy is good :) You just do not like it because for you it seems that it is fine to do not respect authorities and follow rules when it does not put someone else in danger. Well, laws, rules are the same for everything, not just a selection of your choice.

At the end there is one thing that matters: if the dude would have complied... Nothing would have happpened... That's the reality here. No matter what are you position on those bad cops and how you decide clasify rules and laws by order of priority :)

Complied to what? You keep blaming the guy, saying his fault. He was not a threat to anyone. He denied to give up his seat in a peaceful manner and gave a legit justification why he needed to be on that plane.They asked for volunteers to give up their seats. No one volunteered. That should have been the end of it. Airline should have randomly picked another person and if that person says no, then the airline should have find another means to get their crew to their destination. Yes, airline have the rights to refuse service to a person but that reason have to be a legit reason. Not volunteering to give up your seat after boarding a plane is not a legit reason. You keep ranting that he's holding up the plane for everyone else but did you ever thought about why should he miss his flight because of the poor planning by United airlines? How would you feel if someone told you to move to another table at a restaurant because some one more important wanted your seat? 



Around the Network
think-man on 11 April 2017

Unfortunate, but rules are rules I guess.



 

How to Make friends In Dark Souls 3

Peh on 11 April 2017

What kind of fucked up policy is this? He booked the flight, he paid for it. He has is own schedule and then they throw him out? Wow. Worst airline ever. Can't believe that people even defend that. 



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

arthurchan35 on 11 April 2017

Are you kidding? You believe the lie made by UA? That guy had a seat and had a board pass, if it was overbooking, he wouldnt have it, but he had.

It was 100% UA's fault and using brutal force is just ridiculous.

The most disgusting part is they refuse to admit it was their fault and made up fucking stupid lies.

 

 

Imaginedvl said:

Really? Did you even read/watch what happened?

First of all it is on the contract for the ticket that he may get removed at this economy class (the ticket) if the plane is full; he knew it and took the risk by buying it... Second, they asked him nicely... And he refused to leave the plane. Then like always in this kind of situation, the airport security removes any person refusing to attempt... And that was far from being "violent" and far from being abnormal... If the guy would not have resisted like crazy, he would not have getting hurt... That's his own fault, they cannot just ignore it and leave him on the plane at the end 

Seriously this story and the people reacting to it shows how people today do not want to follow rules or guidelines and feel so entitled... The dude refused to comply to a valid request and then some people are chocked because they forcely (different than violently) removed him from the plane.

I mean, the only thing that sucks here (imo) is the airliner not being so good at managing their seats :) But nothing else. the dude did not comply and he got removed, sucks, but expected...


My Bravely Default CE is for sale, check it out: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bravely-Default-Collectors-Edition-Nintendo-3DS-2014-/221490881912?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item3391e2a578

SuperNova on 11 April 2017
Imaginedvl said:
SvennoJ said:

Do we live in a society where time > decency. There was no danger here, no reason to resort to pulling and dragging. It could have taken an hour to talk the man into leaving the plane, so what. Figure something out. It's nothing like pulling a gun on a cop. And when you lay hands on someone, you are responsible for the outcome, plain and simple.

The guy did not want to get out... What do you mean by time? I'm sorry but no, other people do not have to wait (what? hours? Days? Take another plane because of this parasite?) just because he decided to do not comply and give a finger to that same "society" with rules and authorities? And all the people on tthe plane shluld wait because of him, where is the decency towards all other passengers?

Decency also includes other people and the impact of his behavior... 

Good you talk about the society because it actually shows that now, some people really feel like you should respect them so much, not touch them, let them not comply with authorities and do whatever they want until "they" decide to move or comply... I'm sorry but this all wrong imo. Esp. after asking him multiple time with a lot of decency before

You keep acting like the airline hadn't royally fucked up here. They lied. The plane wasn't even overbooked. They just wanted to seat their own employees instead of paying costumers. Customers always take presedece over employees, but they decided to boot the customers off anyways AFTER they were already seated.

Just about everything about this was poorly handled and badly planned. They clearly don't know how to run their business.

And yes, they used unneccessary force on a man who had payed for a ticked and that posed no security risk. He wasn't pulling a gun on anyone, he was saying 'I'm going to call my lawyer.' at wich point they decided the best way to resolve the situation was to knock him out.



vivster on 11 April 2017
Imaginedvl said:

Really? Did you even read/watch what happened?

First of all it is on the contract for the ticket that he may get removed at this economy class (the ticket) if the plane is full; he knew it and took the risk by buying it... Second, they asked him nicely... And he refused to leave the plane. Then like always in this kind of situation, the airport security removes any person refusing to attempt... And that was far from being "violent" and far from being abnormal... If the guy would not have resisted like crazy, he would not have getting hurt... That's his own fault, they cannot just ignore it and leave him on the plane at the end 

Seriously this story and the people reacting to it shows how people today do not want to follow rules or guidelines and feel so entitled... The dude refused to comply to a valid request and then some people are chocked because they forcely (different than violently) removed him from the plane.

I mean, the only thing that sucks here (imo) is the airliner not being so good at managing their seats :) But nothing else. the dude did not comply and he got removed, sucks, but expected...

I concur.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.