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Forums - Gaming - VGC Weapon Durability MEGA Thread

potato_hamster said:
Peh said:

It's only the Master Sword which is just an optional key-element in the game whereas the rest of weapons are just there to be used and tossed away. They throw a huge amount of weapons at you, so you are actually never in the position of having no weapons at all.

Who knows why the choose this way. Maybe it would be too much of a pain to loose clothing during hot and cold environments, running around naked and then die because of it. Again, weapons lie everywhere around, maybe they could do the same with clothing, I don't know. There are a lot of stuff to wear already in the game. I just don't really think about it and take the game as it is. I can probably take an unlimited amount of arrows with me seeing I have over 120 arrows already and materials also have no real limit. Maybe 999 for each. There are also bows which can shoot 5 arrows at once by only consuming one. Those are certainly questionable design choices, but I personally have no real issue with them.

So what you're saying is that the lack of durability works just fine for armor, and thus you probably wouldn't miss weapon durability if it wasn't in the game.  Thanks.

No, I didn't said that and your conclusion is a non sequitur.



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

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Peh said:
potato_hamster said:

So what you're saying is that the lack of durability works just fine for armor, and thus you probably wouldn't miss weapon durability if it wasn't in the game.  Thanks.

No, I didn't said that and your conclusion is a non sequitur.

Okay, so it works for armor, but it wouldn't work for weapons, because?



NATO said:
Pyro as Bill said:
Why do red shells have to run out after 3 in Mario Kart?

Lazy game design.

Now give the carts tires items that wear out while racing and forces you to stop racing and find new ones.

Now give the guns ammo that runs out encouraging you to find more.

Now give the magic staff manna that runs out encouraging you to find more.

 

Looks like we're getting somewhere.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

potato_hamster said:

My point was that they already put up "barriers" and  other"levels requirements" for some weapons, so there's no reason to say the game wouldn't work if it had barriers" and  other"levels requirements" for all weapons. The game itself demonstrates a system where a weapon isn't lost due to durability, and it works just fine.

And yes, I know that you have to pay for armor. I'm about 10 hours into the the game. Curious question though. How come armor doesn't have durability and is permanently destroyed like shields are? What is it about Hyrule that blacksmiths can make armor that can withstand thousands of blows, but only make shields that can handle  a few dozen? How come link doesn't have to find new armor everywhere he goes just like he does weapons? How come no one is complaining that armor doesn't degrade like weapons do if it's such a great mechanic?

So you want every weapon to work the same way as the master sword because the current way is badly designed, lazy and unbalanced?

Maybe you are a 3rd party dev after all.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

Pyro as Bill said:
NATO said:

Now give the carts tires items that wear out while racing and forces you to stop racing and find new ones.

Now give the guns ammo that runs out encouraging you to find more.

Now give the magic staff manna that runs out encouraging you to find more.

 

Looks like we're getting somewhere.

I'd sure love a durrability ammo meter, in the game.



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archer9234 said:
Pyro as Bill said:

Now give the guns ammo that runs out encouraging you to find more.

Now give the magic staff manna that runs out encouraging you to find more.

 

Looks like we're getting somewhere.

I'd sure love a durrability ammo meter, in the game.

See arrows.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

archer9234 said:
Peh said:

1. They cannot acommodate to every single one out there. There will always be someone who will nitpick or don't like certain features in a game. I and most other people on the other hand don't see this mechanic at an issue at all. If you don't like it, then I can't help you. It is like it is. If they would change it to something different, I will bet my ass that other people will still complain about it.

1. Except that the previous system was done, for decades. And worked fine.

2. The old Zelda games had 1-2 swords at most and a few games had some upgrades to it. It is still and foremost an adventure game and not a RPG.  But again, what's the point of exploring if most of the strong weapons are hidden behind not accessable parts of the game and appear later at certain locations you already visited before. This would ruin the exploration aspect. Nintendo wanted to get rid of most limitations you had like linearity. Without breaking the game you had to adjust and add certain mechanics to keep the motivation of exploration in the game high. And for me, it did it. The moment I've acquired a really strong weapon I was full of joy, because the journey was a bit more easier from now on, even if it is only temporarily, but this doesn't have to be the case. You can use the stronger weapons for stronger enemies, and attain their weapons as well. If you waste your good weapons on poor enemies, well, then I can't do much about it. It's your choice.

2. So you're saying you didn't explore every other Zelda game, in the past. Soley because it was gated off? You didn't try to find heart pieces, ruppes, push objects. Us the rumble pack, to find hidden rooms. Get the candle, or find the raft. These are all present in the past games. And makes you explore just fine. BOTW is still linear. Because certain shrines can't be beaten. Unless you have certain health levels, or enough/good weapons. Which would require the inventory upgrades. So it's still forcing to tackle it later. And not when you want to do it. You could tackle these shrines. If, we didn't have the weapon durrability. Because we could last out the entire fight. 

This also causes cumbersome problems that past Zelda games didn't have to worry about. What is the primary role of the game. To figure out puzzles and fight patterns. A lot of these puzzles, you gotta test things. Take statis: You try out boulders in the shrine. But you where doing the wrong thing. You just wasted weapons. You reach the final section. You're out. Now, you're forced to leave, and farm stuff. This breaks pace of your game. In the past Zelda games. This did happen. But, only to arrows and bombs. Pots mitigated force leaving, to help. I'm not complaining that it makes it harder. It doesn't. What BOTW really does. Is a mastery, to waste your time. That's the key to the frustration.

Same goes for boss fights. You first have to figure out what it does. And what to hit. When you finally do. I have to end up dying. So I can get back my weapons. Than reload. Or have to leave and get stuff. Whenever I get into a main fight. And see the heath bar move very little. I abadon the battle. Because, I know I can't win. I don't have enough weapons. So I force a death. I don't even care that I have only 4 hearts. Once I memorize the pattern. I can dodge the one hit kills. I can't dodge weapons being used up. This game design basically wants you to pull up a walkthrough up. Than I know what shrines, to not attempt. Till I have X amount of slots and hearts.

1. You didn't seem to have followed the discussion about the linearity and handholding in Zelda throughout the last years.

2. That's a non sequitar.

I am talking about weapons, not hearts, rupees or whatever you like to throw into the equation. I haven't found a single shrine which I couldn't beat, because of the need of progressing further in the story first. I even walked pretty early on to the shrine at the sea in the far east of the map. This shrines contains the so far strongest enemy in all shrines I have encountered so far. I've been in 88 shrines by now. I had only 5 hearts and the strongest weapon was 32 dmg and I managed to beat it after the 3rd try by carefully observing the enemies behaviour and got access to 60 dmg weaponry really early on. It certainly took some time, but I still succeeded. No enemy during that time was a real challenge until the weapon broke. I could've use this as an exploit if the game didn't stopped it for me.

So far, you can beat lynels with only 3 hearts. But with lower weapon dmg, it is just more challenging and takes a bit longer. Everyone place the game differently and you have to adjust the game to most of playstyles.



Intel Core i7 8700K | 32 GB DDR 4 PC 3200 | ROG STRIX Z370-F Gaming | RTX 3090 FE| Crappy Monitor| HTC Vive Pro :3

Pyro as Bill said:
potato_hamster said:

My point was that they already put up "barriers" and  other"levels requirements" for some weapons, so there's no reason to say the game wouldn't work if it had barriers" and  other"levels requirements" for all weapons. The game itself demonstrates a system where a weapon isn't lost due to durability, and it works just fine.

And yes, I know that you have to pay for armor. I'm about 10 hours into the the game. Curious question though. How come armor doesn't have durability and is permanently destroyed like shields are? What is it about Hyrule that blacksmiths can make armor that can withstand thousands of blows, but only make shields that can handle  a few dozen? How come link doesn't have to find new armor everywhere he goes just like he does weapons? How come no one is complaining that armor doesn't degrade like weapons do if it's such a great mechanic?

So you want every weapon to work the same way as the master sword because the current way is badly designed, lazy and unbalanced?

Maybe you are a 3rd party dev after all.

Not the same, a similar way. Or you know, just something better than the current implementation. Nintendo is capable of making poor decisions you know, It's okay to admit they're not perfect.



StarOcean said:
Weapon durability is one of the worst mechanics in modern gaming. The sooner it dies, the better

Modern gaming has made open world gaming linear and storified, it also gave us 'crouch to heal'.

We have to go back.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

Peh said:
archer9234 said:

1. You didn't seem to have followed the discussion about the linearity and handholding in Zelda throughout the last years.

2. That's a non sequitar.

I am talking about weapons, not hearts, rupees or whatever you like to throw into the equation. I haven't found a single shrine which I couldn't beat, because of the need of progressing further in the story first. I even walked pretty early on to the shrine at the sea in the far east of the map. This shrines contains the so far strongest enemy in all shrines I have encountered so far. I've been in 88 shrines by now. I had only 5 hearts and the strongest weapon was 32 dmg and I managed to beat it after the 3rd try by carefully observing the enemies behaviour and got access to 60 dmg weaponry really early on. It certainly took some time, but I still succeeded. No enemy during that time was a real challenge until the weapon broke. I could've use this as an exploit if the game didn't stopped it for me.

So far, you can beat lynels with only 3 hearts. But with lower weapon dmg, it is just more challenging and takes a bit longer. Everyone place the game differently and you have to adjust the game to most of playstyles.

What does handholding have to do with weapon durability? Are you saying games hand holded you. Because they where linear? Even games that told you nothing. And the only way for it to stop. Was to replace the system, with another system. Instead of just not tell your blantant information.

So you're saying you could beat the modest strength shrine, on that cliff face. Just after you get access to the overworld. With only the default areas weapons. Without running out once.